SHAH ALAM: In the previous two posts on Malaysian Defence, we wrote about that the Armed Forces is expected to deliver the first batch of High Mobility Light Tactical Vehicles (HMLTV) to the Malaysian unit operating under the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) at the earliest the middle of next year.
What if we got the HMLTV contract sorted out and the manufacturer got them ready for delivery and suddenly the United Nations said there is no more UNIFIL as the peacekeeping budget (PKO) has been cut? Should we continue the operations with like-minded countries and fund the operations from our own budget then?
The possibility of the UN cancelling its peacekeeping missions is high as the Trump administration is currently reviewing its financial commitment to the world body. Since January, the administration has already cut overseas development and aid programmes, previously supported by multiyear contracts, have been reduced by 92 per cent, a cut of $54 billion. It has now has a launch a trade war by imposing unilateral tariffs to most of the world.
The US contribution to the PKO is 26 per cent of the $5.6 billion budget for 2024-2025. The US is the first of top ten countries contributing to the PKO, with China coming in second, with 18.6 per cent.
The UNIFIL budget for 2024-2025 period is $591 million. If the US cut its commitments to the UNPKO, it will be devastating to its whole operations and not just UNIFIL. It must be noted that Malaysian peacekeepers to UNPKO retains all of his/her salary and other allowances and on top of that will receive a monthly compensation of $1,428 per soldier or around RM6,400. The UN also reimbursed the government for providing equipment, personnel, and support services for taking part in the PKO.
The deployed UNIFIL personnel as off January this year is 788, 206 officers and 9,631 troops. Indonesia has the biggest contingent with 1252 personnel with Malaysia sixth with 831. The other 19 personnel with Malbatt 850-12 is from Brunei.
What do you think, should we stay on in Lebanon if the UN no longer reimburse us for the costs? It must
be noted apart costs, without UNIFIL, foreign forces in Lebanon will be in a more dangerous position as they no longer have the protection of the UN from the actions of belligerents.
— Malaysian Defence If you like this post, buy me an espresso. Paypal Payment
When KD Mahawangsa went to Lebanon recently to deliver new trucks, cendana auto FFRs, did they bring back the retired condors with them on the way back?
No. If there is no more UNIFIL we should leave.
Asking for the earth and sky of course but the Arabs should do more. The problem is the Arabs are too focus on regime survival, competeting against each other and ingratiating themselves with Uncle Sam. Shame on them, they hold so much influence and there’s so much they can do but are unwilling to do more over Gaza.
AFAIK no.
… – “they bring back the retired condors with them on the way back”
Why? Faster and more practical to dispose of them in Lebanon.
Actually UNIFIL mandate will expire in 31 August 2025.
I has always been an intrim mandate, renewed year by year.
https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15801.doc.htm
Agreed, we should leave. Heck we should have left before things gets soured. If we overstayed it will not be the ambit of a neutral nonpartisan force and it will be seen negatively by those their trying to protect. Its been shown that non neutral ‘peacekeepers’ IFOR, SFOR, KFOR, Aussies in Timor Leste, etc didnt come in thru proper channels and basically bull their in to be a big brother but then created more onto themselves eventually rather than amongst warring parties.
KD Mahawangsa was already there in Lebanon at the time, returning back empty anyway.
Not like we have to pay extra to bring it back.
Those few with unifil number plates should be bought back to be historically preserved. Yeah of course history is not a very important part of malaysian culture anyway.
Perhaps a peacekeeping operation in Korea should better be considered. I know this is an unserious proposal, but it at least could provide the exposure to the risks of actual conventional war against a potentialy very irrational belligerent, something the Malaysian Armed Forces needs to be especially familiarise itself with, and Malaysia actually risk facing.
Yes the mandate is annually renewed. But if Trump decide to cut the funds to UN next year, the UN will have to do something about its operations including the PK one.
” IFOR, SFOR, KFOR, Aussies in Timor Leste, etc ”
Actually all of them are under a UN mandate, but the peacekeeping/peace enforcement executed/organised not by UN itself.
… – “Not like we have to pay extra to bring it back”.
For what payoff exactly? What do we lose by disposing them there as opposed to bringing them back and diposing them here?
“Those few with unifil number plates should be bought back to be historically preserved”
Isn’t like those were the 1st to serve under the UN or something significant happened in which the said Condor participated in.
Nabil – “of actual conventional war against a potentialy very irrational belligerent, something the Malaysian Armed Forces needs to be especially familiarise itself with, and Malaysia actually risk facing”
The threat posed by North Korea with its nukes and chemicals is unlike anything we face.
“it will be seen negatively by those their trying to protect”
In the areas our troops are based there is a good relationship with the local community which values the presence of local troops. In the areas where there were incidents; it was in areas where our troops were passing through and on which there were no ties to the locals.
“that non neutral ‘peacekeepers’ IFOR, SFOR, KFOR, Aussies in Timor Leste, etc didnt come in thru proper channels”
Bosnia, Kosovo and East Timor were UN sanctioned and the presence of foreign troops led to peace. Also note that the locals were dismayed and even protested when foreign troops left or scales down their presence.
Nabil – ” it at least could provide the exposure to the risks of actual conventional war”
Never mind that no one in their right mind would want to be there and that South Korea as a state isn’t as vulnerable as Lebanon, how does being in South Korea “provide the exposure to the risks of actual conventional war”? If anything Somalia and Bosnia did; land mines, the odd arty round, potshots, etc.
… – “Yeah of course history is not a very important part of malaysian culture anyway”
Incorrect, as you are well aware. History is important; it’s history associated with the military which doesn’t have wide public appeal and it has nothing to do with “Malaysian culture” as you put it…
Marhalim postulated the Condors will need to bring back for disposal
https://www.malaysiandefence.com/malbatt-disposing-retired-b-class-vehicles/
But I prefer if we offered them to Leb army for use. Perhaps as home guard against militia attacks. Better than selling as scrap metal.
“unifil number plates should be bought back to be historically preserved”
What history to speak of unless that vehicle was involved in something epic like Bakara Market rescue? AFAIK our UNFIL ops were relatively uneventful and unremarkable.
“unifil number plates should be bought back to be historically preserved”
Also based on your logic with the Sabres, why need to bring back? We have plenty of Condors here which can represent those UNFIL units, just repaint white with UN logos fake as that may be.
Things change,
“AFAIK our UNFIL ops were relatively uneventful and unremarkable”
In contrast to the Congo, Somalia and Bosnia yes but to those on the ground who faced some pretty dicey situations; no.
” Also based on your logic with the Sabres, why need to bring back? We have plenty of Condors here which can represent those UNFIL units, just repaint white with UN logos fake as that may be ”
1) there is no difference in historical significance of Sabres already here and those in USA
2) There is a big historical differenece of CONDORS left back in Malaysia, and those few CONDORS in Lebanon. As those that are now in Malaysia, we need to track down which serial number that survived the Somalia Bukhara Market Incident and preserve it. Hopefully not those that are already used as targets at asahan range.
3) Those Sabres in USA is no longer owned by Malaysian Government. Those CONDORS in Lebanon is till the property of Malaysian government
4) There is costs involved to bring back derelict Sabres from USA. There is zero cost involved to bring back UNIFIL CONDORS as the ship KD Mahawangsa needs to go back to Malaysia anyway with or without any cargo on its return trip.
5) If we want to bring back any aircraft, it must be in flyable condition, as all of our retired aircraft back home is not. If say we want to bring back airworthy skyhawks from USA, yes i agree if we are going to do something like a historical flight like RAAF or RAF. If we have no plans to do so, then no need.
” doesn’t have wide public appeal and it has nothing to do with “Malaysian culture” as you put it ”
We malaysians don’t have a culture that thinks our history as a precious thing to protect. Just go to any malaysian museums, it is “hollow” with many replicas of something rather than the real deal. They are also boring, with little available interactions with the visitors to fully understand the significance of the displays. We destroy, scrap historically significant items without even a second thought, unlike say japan or europeans. So yes, i say that we dont really care much about history.
“But I prefer if we offered them to Leb army for use”
Doubt they’d want old beaten up APCs which we don’t want anymore. Plus, they have their own IFVs and APCs.
“There is a big historical differenece of CONDORS”
Why??? just as you said there are no big historical difference between the Avon Sabres here and those we gave away, follow your logic there are no historical difference with the Condors in UNFIL or was in Somalia. Just take any random Condors in our storage and paint them white. We have 400+ on hand wat. Just pick any right?
“There is costs involved to bring back derelict Sabres from USA”
Not necessarily from USA, Indon museum one in display, just ask nicely to loan it. Its common for museum to loan each other. Sure there will be cost involved, thats why these special exhibits comes with higher priced tickets. This is also normal.
“If we want to bring back any aircraft, it must be in flyable condition”
Why does it need to be flyable when displayed in a museum? How many public flying displays actually happen in Msia yearly (other than Merdeka & LIMA)?
“So yes, i say that we dont really care much about history.”
Because our history got no kick, no heroics other than Bukit Kepong & Left Adnan (arguably happen in SG tho). We got no Battle of Britain, or D-Day or Stalingrad. We have nothing to excite the young on our history and our politicians have nothing other than trotting out Hang Tuah as historical fact. Frankly our modern history is boring and our past history is filled with defeats & being colonised.
“Doubt they’d want old beaten up APCs”
Let them do whatever they want, if its not economically feasible to bring back. These are after all obsoleted.
” there are no big historical difference between the Avon Sabres here and those we gave away ‘
CORRECT. Because all of them used for the same thing, no special things some Sabre did or some sabre did not in TUDM service. Do you understand the context?
” Indon museum one in display ”
I repeat
There is no difference historically the Sabre in TNI-AU museum, those in USA and the 2 excellent examples now with TUDM MUSEUM. It is not like the one in TNI-AU has been operated by TUDM in special operations that those currently in TUDM Museum did not.
Totally different context for the CONDORS.
Those CONDORS back in malaysia did not serve in Lebanon. We also need to look into their logbooks, and find if there is a CONDOR somewhere that has been used in all overseas deployments like Cambodia, East Timor, Somalia, and Bosnia. That would be an awesome logbook should be seen by the public…
“Let them do whatever they want”
What they would have wanted was to politely decline the offer of aged and worn out APCs.
“Because our history got no kick”
We are also a young country. The country with the museums which ‘…’ makes reference to have longer military histories by virtue of having longer histories as sovereign nations. It’s also not only history with a “kick” as you put it but longer ones. The bulk of exhibits in museums are not about “glorious” battles not about history; i.e. when the Scots Guards went up Mount Tumbledown it had a history stretching back to the mid 1600s to live up to and the Fleet Air Arm Museum has tonnes of stuff [not all “glorious” per see] which can showcase a history going back a 100 years. “Glory” plays a part but its only one element.
… – “second thought, unlike say japan or europeans. So yes, i say that we dont really care much about history”
I “say” we are not too focused on military history due to various factors.
… – “CONDORS as the ship KD Mahawangsa needs to go back to Malaysia anyway with or without any cargo on its return trip.”
Go through all the hassle to bring them back and dispose them when Jr can be done in Lebanon? Why in heaven’s white roses does this make sense?
“Totally different context for the CONDORS.”
How is that different than your logic with the Avon Sabres? Those Sabres we have didnt serve with TNI thus they do NOT have historical context of serving in their fleet. If your okay with taking our Sabres and repainting TNI-AU to represent them, whats the difference with taking any random Condor and repainting white to represent those in Somalia or UNFIL? Same same wat!
“That would be an awesome logbook should be seen by the public…”
It would be very awesome to fake history… just as museums dressing up mannequins with period incorrect uniforms.
“What they would have wanted was to politely decline the offer”
If they did then thats that. But have we tried to give out? Lets try first then talk.
“The bulk of exhibits in museums are not about “glorious” battles not about history”
If you gone to the Louvre you will have different opinion on that. The biggest paintings are all about glorious victories.
“If you gone to the Louvre”
That is not a military museum. I was referring military museums.
“If they did then thats that”
Im going on the basis that an arny which already has IFVs and APCs of its own would not want vehicles which are so aged and runned down that we don’t want them anymore.
“That is not a military museum. I was referring military museums.”
Louvre displays largely heralds military achievements but Western military museums largely no longer hark on glorifying war rather many focus on the horrors of war but thats given when their audience are matured & educated where you dont see kids playing soldier wanting to ‘shoot’ each other.
Here you can still play the heartstrings of kids which where my idea of mandatory museum visits by schools will inspire some of them to grow up wanting a military life or be involved in defence industry. But the problem is we got nothing much in our history to inspire with.
“Im going on the basis that an arny which”
Im going on the basis of ‘never try never know’. If they didnt want it its fine at least we tried to give.
Western military museums largely no longer hark on glorifying war”
I’ve been going to British museums since the 1980’s. They never did “hark on glorifying war”. What they did was present history.
“Im going on the basis of ‘never try never know”
That’s the same basis as saying who “says diarrhoea tastes bad if one has never tried it” ?
Based on an educated guess why would the Lebanese army which has its own APCs and IFVs want out old and worn out Condors which we don’t even want?