KUALA LUMPUR: As mentioned by Simon, I am posting this, so every one who wants to talk about the replacement for the Sri Inderapura and perhaps the two other LPD in RMN, KD Mahawangsa and KD Inderasakti, can have their say. I will open another one if the comments get merrier.
First of all, can we afford the South Korean landing helicopter platform, the Dokdo-class, MAF favourite choice for the MPSS or perhaps the politicians choice, the French-made Mistral-class? With helicopters and landing ships, we will probably need to pay RM3 billion for a Dokdo class ship or RM3.5 billion for the Mistral. The annual running costs will get even the best connected crony envious…..
Perhaps we should go for the Indonesian-LPD built by the Koreans for USD19.9 million or around RM70 million per ship. With helicopters and landing ships, we probably be spending RM200 million tops. So we can get five LPDs instead of one Dokdo or Mistral.
The Endurance-class LST is also a proven design with four in service with RSN and another set to join the RTN. The Thais bought it for US$182 million (RM697 million) so we can get two for the cost one Dokdo.
We can also get a Chinese LPD probably for the same price as the Endurance class LST. The one offered to us back in 2007 the Type 071 reportedly cost some US$150 million plus. There are other LPDs of course, like the Rotterdam/Galicia class LPDs, Mewerde commercial-derived designs and HDW designed ships but these ships could also cost around USD300 million each.
Choices, choices. My personal choice? A modified, smaller version of the Dokdo costing not more than RM200 million per ship so we can get more helicopters on board plus a good C4I system so the ship can become a flagship as the main requirement stated for the MPSS by the armed forces. With helicopters and landing ships, it will cost RM500 million per ship and we can get two of these vessels instead of one Dokdo or Mistral.
–Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (48)
Haha you are funny lah marhalim. Yourself explaned the Dokdo costs RM3Billion, and you expect a smaller version for only RM200mil?? Anyway getting commercial-derived designs will just be a glorified ferry, and should be avoided. Just look at what mess the New Zealand HMNZS Canterbury MRV is in.
Anyway what a sad sight to see the hardworking KD Inderapura burning for the second time in its life. I am sure the short circuit that caused the fire was not caused by the age of the ship, but because the poor ship was overstrained with work, with its maintenance skipped as a result. I still believe the Inderapura, and other newport class ships has a lot of remaining active lives left, as it is still being used by Australia, Spain, Mexico, Chile and other countries. If the Newport class is prone to short circuit, why isn’t the other Newports burning like the Inderapura? The problem of Inderapura in RMN service is that she does not have a sister ship to relieve its burden, thus not having enough time to properly maintain her. Now the only choice for the government is either to dig deep into its pockets to buy new expensive LPD's; or get 1 or 2 more used Newports to relieve the Inderapura's heavy burden. IMO used ships, built to mil specs, will windstand more heavy abuse, rough open seas, deployment under military conditions and under attack, than a commercial-derived design.
As Inderapura, and its tasks are now one of the most important jobs for the navy, i urge that the new Lekiu batch II to be forgotten totally, and instead look for multipurpose ships of the Absalon-class instead rather than a straight frigate, than can cover some of the function of the Inderapura.
For the next 10 years i think this is what the navy should look for:
2x Absalon class Multi Purpose Command and Control Ships (Frigates but can perform as MPCCS and LST's). The 2 absalons reportedly costs about USD500Mil for both, a bit less than our 2 lekiu's.
1-2x Newport class + upgrades to them and Inderapura (surely will cost less than buying new LPD's)
3-4x additional Meko 200 OPV's
12x Gomdoksuri class Fast attack corvettes (PKX - Korea) to replace some of the FAC(M) and the remaining vospers. Can be built locally instead of getting more of the Meko's, and hey its waterjet units are built by a malaysian company!
12-24 more CB90's
1-2x Ex british frigates (type 22 or 23) (Chile, which bought a higher spec scorpenes than us, also around the same time bought 3 second hand type 22 frigates from UK for only 160mil pounds, which is to me is very value for money)
the 3 nakhoda ragam corvettes
I dont understand the aversion of malaysians to used military items. For example even Singapore, all 6 of its submarines are second hand and 4 of them were built in the late 1960's (consider the training sub Quossant, is build in the late 70’s and last we heard that is just going to be retired after this). Why not we buy capable but used equipments? Just look at our assad class corvette buy in 1997. It only cost us only USD253million for 4 highly capable ships, while the same price can’t even get us a single FFBNW Meko 200 OPV's...
Malaysia needs to prioritize its spending. We can buy 3 units of AW139 costing more than USD200mil but can’t find any money to replace the nuri? The opposition needs not to oppose just for the sake of opposing. Please support and lobby for the military to get better equipments, even if that meant getting used ones. Today it’s the poor Inderapura… Dread to think if something happens to the nuri in the near future…
Marhalim: Theres no more party favours for Inderapura anymore, she is going to scrapyards for sure. Why we dont buy more second-hand arms? Its the curse of the Skyhawks......
If I'm not mistaken the Type 071 amphibious transport dock is heavily armed with 1 x AK-176, 76 mm gun, 4 x AK-630, 30 mm CIWS and 4 x 18-tube Type 726-4 decoy/chaff launcher if compared to Dokdo amphibious assault ship which is armed with only Two Goalkeeper CIWS and One RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile.
If the navy is keen to procure a fleet of mpss i would prefer the type 071 over the dokdo because it have the capability to carry more troop and vehicles and there's advantages to carry even a LCAC but I don't think Malaysia would have enough extra budget for a LCAC vessel. The type 071 is also advance in the weapon system then the dokdo.
But if there's extra budget the navy should procure the type 071 with maybe 1-2 lcac range from the russian zubr-class or the chinese made lcac to complete the requirement of rapid-responce fleet as we already have the scorpene.
The rapid-response fleet should have the following=
1. The MPSS as the flagship (range from type 071 to dokdo)
2. The Lekiu-class frigate (range from the 1st batch to 2nd batch if possible)
3. The laksamana class corvette
4. The kedah-class ngpv (2nd batch of the class as it maybe equipped with anti-submarine warfare)
5. and lastly the scorpene submarine
so that's what the navy should do to my opinion to have a complete rapid-response fleet.
higher priority should be given to the navy as the fleet is too old to serve in this modern world and the air force should benefit if the navy to procure a lhd as the navy would have their own air fleet. so the maritime patrol should be on navy
responsible not the air force.
Marhalim: Kita tak da duit bang. I believe apart from two LPDs, we should spend our money on a 60 metre boat armed with misisles and guns and UAV.
Hi Marhalim
The Kiwi's Canterbury (Merwerde design) costs less than USD100 million to build. Good choice for a cash strapped government?
Marhalim: Yes, but it needs a redesign as the Kiwis found to their disgust. A review showed that while the ship was safe for service, the location of the ship's boat need to move as they lost two boats during a storm, a few years back.
I doubt if there are any plans at this time to replace the Mahawangsa and Inderasakti unless they become victims of arson.
A through deck design like the Dokdo increases costs considerably because of the need to have complex handling systems like lifts etc. Given the paucity of helicopters in our inventory, such designs are unnecessary. I remember seeing the Chakri laid up in the 90s in Sattahip because she was to expensive to operate.
A double hangar for medium sized helicopters would be quite adequate. We should size them for the top end of the class like a Merlin since steel is not so expensive.
Well deck...desirable. Big enough for a couple of LCU or equivalents should be quite adequate.
Ro-ro...mandatory
Command/flag capability...waste of time. Today, there is ZERO need for a flag to be afloat. Even if they were, they would be on a short leash from Fleet HQ.
Force protection capability...essential.
CIWS/self defence suites....leave deck and topweight provisions.
Sensors....Nav radar. All else leave room for.
Combat system....anything we have in service or no dice.
We should get at least 3 MPSS, either the Galicia/Rotterdam or the French Foudre. If we don't have the budget, put aside our ego and get 4 Endurances from S'pore but the electronic and weapons fitting should be done in-country.
Then put some AAW and ASuW missiles on the Kedah classes for added punch as an interim measure while waiting for the Jebat Batch 2s. Also start the ball rolling for the 2nd Batch of 6 OPVs. But don't forget to get the at least 6 ASW/ASuW helis and another 8 utility (for the LPDs).
By-right we should buy at least 3 units of a class to reduce cost of maintenance and allow for proper dock time with minimal distruption to operations.
IMHO,
ATM is rapidly going into block obsolosence:
- TLDM (8FAC(M)s,6 FAC(G),2MPCSS,Kasturis among others)
- TDM (Condor & Sibmas, 105mm artillery)
- TUDM (trainer aircraft & soon the C130s)
Thanks to 5 years of the feel good factors, media hypes and glamorous nothings. Furthermore, with all due respect, we are throwing too much money to equip every ATM branch, APMM & police with special forces (SF). Why can't we consolidate them. Small amounts when put together will cost a lot. Anyway, training special forces personnel are expensive with the little "real" action around, everybody is scrambling to get the few slots available for the LIVE test. Net-net, the SFers still have very little exposure. You can only go so far in drills but in the long run, without action, the training becomes a boring chore, morale will plummet and the edge gets dull. The SFs are becoming glamourous and we may spiral into the what happenned to the US in Vietnam.
Sorry for going off-topic at the last few paragraphs...
Kubai
i don't mind about what vessel we should buy for KD inderapura replacement(although dokdo is still in my mind)
to keep it short,whatever decision they make regarding it's replacement,i'm happy
How about the Thai's Navy aircraft carrier? The deck was design for Harrier landings but it can surely be used for helicopters. The ship been stuck at the port since the Thai do not have the budget to maintained the ships and its operating cost of the Harriers. It can surely be a good idea to give the Thai a good offer for something they haven't been able to used properly.
I don't think that we gonna buy a Russian or Chinese vessels as the Navy once said that those ships can't be integrated into our C41 systems(the reason why we had been using Western items).The cost to modify the ships electronic suites to be integrated into our C4I system is quite high......
....... The Nakhoda Ragams are going to Pakistan and for the forseeble future, they wont be any more surplus Tpre 23's. The RN was very reluctant to release Type 23s and were forced to by politicans to save costs. Though the Type 23s would be an excellent ASW platform, its very labour intensive. Syameer...the Dodko is only armed with 2 RAMs unlike the Type 071 because in time of war, it will be operating with a strong escort and air support.
Dokdo maintenance cost is high due to its complex handling systems. The arsenals is rather inadequate too.why not we build our own ship?
Marhalim: I could be accused of being un-nationalistic, but I am wary of building something locally that we dont have the experience to do it.
To ......, Chile did not buy a 'higher spec' Scorpene than the RMN. But are almost indentical, being the same tonnage and having the same flank array sonar suite instead of a towed array. The main difference is that the RMN Scorpenes, which will operate mostly within the continental shelf, are fitted with a watertight cofferdam section. The Chilean Scorpenes on the other hand, operate in much deeper waters. Both countries have also gone for the same weapons fit. The problem is buying ex-NATO ships from the 80's or 90's is that whilst being capable, are very labour and mantainance intensive. Remember that the RMN is a small navy and manpower is a problem and important consideration when buying new assets.