PETALING JAYA: I sincerely hope with this post, the Indonesian media and establishment will stop making noise about Malaysia buying the Anoa.
Yes, it appears both the VAB and its Indonesian version, the Anoa, have been beaten in the competition to supply Malaysian peacekeepers in Lebanon a new 6X6. And the winner? The Malaysian Army Condors!
I was informed that the 33 Condors were shipped to Lebanon recently to replace those vehicles which had been deployed there since two or three years ago. As Malaysian Defence had reported earlier there were attempts to replace those Condors initially with new or second-hand 6X6 but the programme went no where as the requirement was supposed to be filled by the Anoas.
The Indonesian media and establishment on various occasions had went to town on the supposed deal and the latest report also stated that a deal for 32 Anoas worth some USD80 million was confirmed by the Indonesian defence minister himself. Read Here
As this report and others in the past had been denied by our Defence Minister, the latest developments in Lebanon probably means that the programme to replace the Condor is, officially, dead. That said, strange things have happened in Malaysia before.
I am told the Condors recently shipped to Lebanon, are outfitted with new engines. Whether these engines were fitted recently for the Lebanon mission or whether these were part of the batch that were re-engined after the Bosnia and Somalia missions, I have no idea.
I was told however that apart from the new engines, the Condors are not much better than the ones they are replacing. Let’s hope the UN give us more RG-33s.
–Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (30)
Those Indonesian media love to speculate things. This hoax has been circulating the Internet for years.
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Its not speculation when you quote someone and that someone is the Defence Minister!
Oh well i am glad to hear that. I am dead against it. But is it 100% absolutely true we aint going to buy this thing? There was a report in Utusan not too long ago on the supposed purchase of the Anoas. From the way it was written, i thought the deal was done and dusted.
Buy from Thais, Sings or China for all i care. But NEVER from that one particular country. But then again, you will never know what this government of ours is willing to do in the name of diplomatic relations.
Well, our ''cousins'' won't be happy thats for sure! Though there is a legitimate need for our troops with UNIFIL to have a new APC, I wasn't keen on the Anoa as it's just a carbon copy of the VAB and no improvements have been done by PINDAD to make it any better! As a 6x6 the Anoa has better mobility but like the Condor, only offers protection up to 7.62mm. Buying the Anoa would also have meant that the army would have another armoured vehicle to support and that thousands of parts would have to be stocked just for less than 30 vehicles!
This is a great news!
Nothing wrong with the Condor IMO, accept of the rollover issue in Somalia (which IMO caused by the road being sprinkled with oil to stop dust and also driver training). Refurbish it with new engines, ABS, ESP for auto hill decent, add some composite/ bar armor and it is good for another 20 years!
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The soldiers in Lebanon, thinks otherwise!
While I agree that we should not buy the ANOA the fact that our boys will have to risk their lives with obsolete stuff saddened me.
I hope government will accelerate the delivery of the PARS. If a 6x6 is what is needed in Lebanon, then make a VO for that variant of the PARS. The first few batch should be sent over there if we are going to stay in Lebanon long enough for the PARS to complete all the necessary trials and operator training. The ad-hoc buying such as those of the KIFV, ACV 300 now VAB or ANOA (or not) must stop.
The perception it gave is that we do not have a APC or IFV that is fit to defend this country. When there is an urgent requirement such as UN mission where there is a real threat, we have to scramble to purchase without proper planning or study whether it fit our overall defense needs.
If we increase the total numbers of vehicles ordered, I supposed it should be able to reduced the per unit cost. At the same time boost DRB capacity and local economies.
Halim,
Could you explain what actually happened with that Condor in somalia?
Heard stuff,not sure what is real. Now @...on is saying oil to stop the dust?
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Apart from Black Hawk Down mission, the Condors were used for daily patrols. As for the oil sprayed on roads to prevent dust issue, you got to ask VR an explaination.
BTW have you ever seen Condors on the roads? You will see that the guys sitting almost on top of the turret every time. This is because, from my short experience in them, one cannot stay inside a button up Condor. The vents suck in the exhaust smoke right into the cabin.
.....,
Nothing wrong with the Condor???? There's nothing wrong with it indeed if just dealing with lightly armed insurgents and nobody shoots at it with anything larger than a 7.62mm round..... apart from that and other minor stuff like a complete lack of spall liners and even a TI for the driver [which proved to be a 'slight' problem on the night of 3/10/93], I supposed there's nothing wrong with it. The Condor is based on a Unimog chassis and can only take so much weight, so adding stuff like applique armour might not do the trick. As part of PERISTA when there was a need to buy a large number of low tech, inexpensive APCs, the Condor was perfect but its time has past and yes it has provided us with years of excellent service. The roll over issue is largely due with the terrain and the limitations of having just 4 wheels not just oil on the road, that's why most armies have gone for a 6x6 or a 8x8. One of the first offers received to replace the Condor was an offer from Denel for the Ratel in 1995.
Marhalim,
There could also be another reason why guys sit on top. The AC could be down or is not functioning well.
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The Condors I took the ride had the AC or maybe blowers, but it was only cool exhaust smoke!
@azlan
Compare VAB and condor.
Armor? Most APC's can only windstand only 7.62mm round as standard. A standard VAB armor is designed also only to take hits from 7.62mm rounds. Even our SIBMAS and MIFV/ADNAN can only take hits from 7.62mm rounds.
Add on composite/ bar armor / spall liners won't affect much if the absorbers/springs are upgraded too. TI's is not rocket science to intergrate to an APC. Can Condor chassis take the weight? It can be done. Just look at up-armored Humvees. Upgraded HVAC systems (Aircon) is also doable. I do automotive R&D, so i know it is not impossible. Except for the 6x6, VAB is no better than the condor.
http://www.ibd-deisenroth-engineering.de/amap-b.html?file=tl_files/resources/content-pdfs/brochures_uk/AMAP-B.pdf
http://www.ibd-deisenroth-engineering.de/amap-l.html?file=tl_files/resources/content-pdfs/brochures_uk/AMAP-L.pdf
@Dave malaysia
About the oil issue, that is what was told in during the 90's as the cause of rollover. Oil on dusty gravel/earth roads with steep slope. I don't know if it is true or not as i have never been anywhere near somalia ever.
Re: PECACAI
"The ad-hoc buying such as those of the KIFV, ACV 300 now VAB or ANOA (or not) must stop.
The perception it gave is that we do not have a APC or IFV that is fit to defend this country... we have to scramble to purchase without proper planning or study whether it fit our overall defense needs."
I couldn't agree more with these statements. The procurement situation is comparable to someone who goes to the toilet and then discovers there is nothing to wash his backside with! We always seem to be caught with our pants down!
Get rid of the Condors! As Azlan laid out they are not fit for serious military service. For internal security, maybe, but definitely not for anything like what the army would face in a conflict. It would be better for the army to have nothing at all than a fleet of bullet magnets that can't stop the bullets!
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The government is at at fault for the state of affairs.
What is the current state of the army's tracked armor?
- PT-91M Pendekar
- Scorpion
- ACV 300 Adnan
- K200 KIFV
- Stormer