KUALA LUMPUR: The story below is self-explainatory. But since we are reportedly in the midst of purchasing the same system (as I mentioned before the deal was set to be signed last year but fell through due to the economic crisis), the UAE contract should be a benchmark for our deal.
According to my calculation, the deal is worth RM739 million. I must admit for starters ours would be much higher even if we purchase the same type of aircraft, the SAAB 340, due to the middleman mafia. The AEW deal is one of the most important item for RMK10, which according to some, defence would only be allocated RM5 billion, yes, a billion a year…..
Saab signs contract with United Arab Emirates for airborne surveillance system
Defence and security company Saab has signed a contract for the sale of an airborne surveillance system to the United Arab Emirates (UAE). The contract is worth approximately 1.5 billion SEK.
The contract covers two Saab 340 AEW (Airborne Early Warning) systems, comprising of the Saab 340 aircraft equipped with the advanced Erieye radar system. The contract also includes ground equipment as well as logistics and support services. Together with associated ground equipment, the system will provide a detailed situational picture that can be used in conjunction with, for example, border control and rescue operations.
“We’ve been conducting discussions with the UAE for several years concerning an airborne surveillance system,” says Saab’s CEO Åke Svensson. “This contract is an additional proof of our expertise and international competitiveness within the field of network-based solutions for defence and civil security.”
Saab’s Erieye surveillance system is a market success. The first Erieye surveillance system was delivered to the Swedish Air Force on a Saab 340 aircraft platform. The system has also been sold to Thailand with the Saab 340 as a platform, and this time the United Arab Emirates. The radar system has also been installed on the Embraer-145 aircraft and is operational in Brazil, Mexico and Greece. The system will soon be delivered to Pakistan on Saab 2000 aircraft.
—Malaysian Defence.
If RM1 billion a year, well would be better off to replenish old items such as guns, ammo, ATGM, ASM and missiles.
My take:-
Continuation of the M4 program
New ATGM purchase
Additional Exocet purchase to equip the NGPV
SEA RAM
AMMRAAM
RVV AE
SPH
More 3D radars.
Marhalim: Its exactly what I said before, but add to the list a new MPSS/MRSS.
Here’s my wish list.
1. 3P ammo for the Bofors Mk2s on the Lekiu’s
2. AHEAD ammo to make GAPU’s Oerlikon’s more capable of dealing with modern threats.
3. Getting FFV to rebuild our Carl Gustavs. [which are still more accurate than the C-90’s And RPG’s]
4. Getting sights for what M4s have already been delivered.
5. Getting a commander’s thermal so the PT-91 can have a hunter capability at night.
6. Data links and a HUMS for the MKM’s.
7. Decent 125mm KE penetrators, instead of the PRENTIS M88 kinetic energy penetrators [based on the Soviet tungsten core BM-15 developed in the 80’s], which is almost useless frontally against 3rd generation Western made armour.
8. An alerting device like ADADs mounted on a 4×4 to provide GAPU with early warning.
9. 155mm base bleed and smart rounds for the
G-5s which currently have only standard HE.
Lets improve on what we have before thinking of big ticket items like missiles and radars.
Dear Marhalim, do has any idea if there’ any VERA-E radar exist in the army and what type they’re using if it’s exist.
I agreed with both Azlan and Kamal wishlist. Maybe we should just forget about many major assets procurement and should focus to update and upgrade our current inventory ranging from gun to missile.
Oh ya, how about the Denel Roovailk helicopter, it has been long time since I heard about this in the internet. Is any of you has any idea about what the govt plan for this helicopter…?
Marhalim: Yes, its the VERA-E radar that they are using. The Rooivalk deal has been dead for a long time. There is no more interest in the helicopter…
syameer, what killed the Roivalk deal was the 97 economic crisis. Prior to that, a deal was close to being signed for 8. Though MD had received congressional approval to sell Malaysia the Apache, the Rooivalk was the political favourite. [Unlike Bill Clinton, President Mandela was a personal friend of Mahathir and he pushed hard for the Rooivalk during a visit here] During a visit to St. Louis in 97, Syed Hamid Albar flew in Apache. A technical briefing by the US Army on the Apache was also given to Malaysia. At the moment, the only thing that will save the Rooivalk is an export order because Denel has not enough funds to continue development. The 12 SAAF Roiivalks have only just been declared operational but there no funds to plan any upgrades.
They should also freeze the program khidmat negara for a couple of years and used the money to augment the wataniah. I estimated the PLKN cost in the range of RM350 million to RM500 million a year. The wataniah should be given additional fire power and apcs or even mbt, either ex army or cheap brand new one. For RM100 million you can get them cheap VAN knock off from China and even cheap T72 knock off. Some MIL 17 or refurbished Nuri. Handover the 150+ 105mm from army to them.
Sorry not VAN, i mean VAB (hahahah typo)
kamal, this would be a case of ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul”. As it is, the army does not have enough 105mm’s and APC’s, how on earth will it pass any to Wartaniah? Surplus T-72’s can be bought as little as US$150,000 but that will mean supporting 2 MBT’s and where will the cash come from to train Wartaniah to operate and maintain MBT’s. Even the army has manpower and cash problems supporting it’a A-109’s, how do you expect Wataniah to eperate Nuri’s?.
Is anyone has any idea on what is the govt plan about the UAV procurement? Is it will be the ALUDRA or the Sapura made UAV…? My sources said that it will be the CTRM one…? Another things, En Kamal, I don’t think for freezing the National Service is a good idea. As a youth, I supported the PLKN program as it’s the best medium to trained our youth in many aspect. It’s almost impossible for them to get any extra equipment at the moment. As for the heli, I don’t think the govt would opt for the RUSSIAN one. At the moment, besides the proposed wishlist by Azlan and Kamal, I do think that the govt should opt for UAV into the armed forces services and it should be the locally-made uav.
Marhalim: Yes it will be the CTRM one, Aludra and its ilk. What is interesting the type of UAV MMEA is going to opt for its maritime surveillance role apart from its fixed wing ambition and during a briefing two weeks ago, the Deputy chief of MMEA say they want a medium endurance version which ruled out the Aludra. The admiral would not say which one they want saying they have to issue the tender first. Due to the financial crisis, it has been deferred until 2015.
I got this news just a few minutes ago! Is it really that on the 12th Nov, Malaysian govt has put on order 30 units of Panser and a numbers of weapons from the Indonesian PT PINDAD? I’m really in doubt now….
Marhalim: Ok, I saw this on Antara online. The funny thing no other media is reporting this not even the Bernama rep in Indonesia and of course the Utusan and BH correspondents in Jakarta, makes me wonder…..
Marhalim, how many VERA’s were ordered and is it GAPU or RMAF operated? By the way Syameer, the VERA is a land based EW system not a radar.
Buying anything from Inonesia after their ‘rakyat’ and media have been pouring filth on us totally puts me off. Yet kerajaan Malaysia continues to go out of it’s way to sooth Indonesia’s feelings. Instead of defending the Captain of KD Baung, our leadership announced that he would be reprimanded. Typical of a spineless leadership who can only talk the talk’ but not ‘walk the walk’. Anyway the problem is both the Panser and the VAB have almost nil protection value, both are easily penetrated even by 7.63mm AP and have almost nil mine protection.
Marhalim: I dont know the numbers but I believed the VERA is operated by GAPU…
Agreed with you Azlan, but my take on the matter that paul has been around for decades and is the second liner of the defence while peter is the new kid on the block and practically useless in defence matter. Again, as suggested the money to train wataniah or even the army should come out from the PLKN budget of approximately RM350 million to RM500 million. Please correct me if i am wrong but why would the army need to maintain a 30 year old towed 105mm system when their recent purchase seems to suggest moving towards self propelled and higher calibre guns such as 120mm sph mortar, 155mm and even MLRS. Again, I am not suggesting new money to be found but redirect the money spent on “the jury still out there” plkn programme to the step son of the army wataniah programme. Anyway thanks for the critic
First of all, scrapping PLKN will never happen as this will make the government look bad. It will be politically disastrous. The army as far as I know has no plans to replace the 105’s with 155s, 120s and MLRS. The MLRS is meant to complement the existing firepower and being a saturation weapon is no substitute for artillery and was never meant to be. The same goes for 120mm mortars, lacking the range and accuracy of tube artillery they are no substitute for the 105’s or 155’s.
Equipping wartaniah with MBT’s, Nuris and APC’s is only part of the problem. Where will the cash for training and support come from? To carry out your plan would inevitably require transferring people from the regular army to wartaniah to operate and maintain the MBTs and APC’s. With even the army short of pilots and lacking the funding and infrastructure to support additional helicopters, how do you expect Wartaniah to do so? As it is, even the regular army doesn’t get enough live fire practice with its big toys due to funding…
Here are 2 interesting links, one about RMAF pilots and the other about the RMR at Pasir Panjang.
http://allmalaysia.info/news/story.asp?file=/2009/5/2/state/3781524&sec=state
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/pointer/back/journals/2002/Vol28_1/1.htm
That is the question is it, i never mentioned plkn to be scrapped. At this moment of economic crisis, it should be suspended. Either it make the govt look bad, well there are many u turn decisions that they have done that make them look worst than the three stooges show, so another one would not really make a difference IMO. But then again that is only my opinion, and knowing little about malaysian politics, i will reserve to the opinion of never say never. So RM500 million is not enough for few dozens knock off t72 at usd150k a piece and training of pilots for 18 old heli? well things sure get more expensive now days..
Azlan,
What the indonesian people/media did or did not do shouldn’t be an obstacle to getting a good product (if there is truly a good product, not just this apc issue). If they want to sell the pindad FN rifles for a good price and meets our requirement, so be it. The Americans has done worse to Muslims, yet we still spread our ass for their long dong silvers..
Always hoping the govt spend wisely, on its military matters especially..
cheekucai, we ”spread our ass for their long dong silvers” because the US is the largest foreign investor in Malaysia and our economy is dependent on the US economy. Like our neighbours, the US military presence in the region is a source of comfort to us, eventhough we don’t say it. The only reason the government for the past few decades during the Cold War was able to focus on development rather than pour large amounts of cash into defence is because of the US military presence in SEA. You mentioned the ”US doing worse to Muslims”. The Russians have killed Muslims in Chechnya, so would you have any problems buying more MKM’s? The only reason the Muslims of Bosnia and Kosovo are war free at present is because of US military and political intervention, it was not due to the efforts of the EU and Arab world. I’m just stating the facts here, not being pro-American.
Kamal, the 500 million would indeed a buy a few used T-72 and Mil-17s. But just how would this contribute to Malaysia’s defence? And what about cash to establish a training programme, support infrastructure and spares, would 500 million be enough? Perhaps instead of getting tanks and helicopters for wartaniah, funds should be allocated for stuff like more live firing, better personal gear, a well managed PR campaign to attract volunteers and more decent allowances.
Personally, i think the navy or the coast guard should implement the same concept as now well underway for the USN & USCG for the UAV procurement, the BAMS programme.
The concept for me was both efficient and effective…i suggest even this concept also adopted by the air force for its MPA plan…
Operates conventional MPA such as turboprops or turbofans manned aircraft is costly, why not operates unmanned aircraft as HALE/MALE UAV to do the job? good range/altitude, even some were armed with missile such as the Predator…South Africa has the MALE-Bateleur, while UK can provides the HALE-Zephyr…is’nt operating cost of UAV is much more lower?
The Australian also reported now takes interest in this concept and might choose it for future to complement/replace its fleet of P3 Orion…like it or not its an era of unmanned system nowdays…
Cheekucai,
I agreed with Azlan regarding the Indon matters. I’m strictly opposed to the idea of getting armaments from them. It maybe truth that the CN-235 is in our inventory, but that is the story of the past so after this no more armaments from Indon for some obvious reasons. One very obvious reasons is the BENDERA extremist would making propaganda regarding this matter.
Dear Marhalim, just now I was reading about the study made by an Indonesian captain over the possibility of war in Ambalat. So in the study is stated that in case of war between Indonesian and Malaysian in Ambalat, either Malaysia strike Indonesia first or the other way around, Malaysia will still be the loser… So what do you have to say about this matter….? Because i believe that both our navy and air force has a greater advantages in aspect of technology and armaments over the Indonesian one…so how? anyone…?
Marhalim: I am not too keen in responding to inflammatory messages, it is a free world….
syameer, despite all the rhetoric and beating of ‘war dums’ by certain elements in Indonesia, the last thing both countries want is war. Any shooting incidents at sea would be followed by immediate diplomatic moves by both sides to contain it. As someone else pointed out, a ‘mini war’ or shooting incident could lead to serious repurcussions, including the end of ASEAN. Apart from the MAF and TNI being far from combat ready, both would probably run out of ammo in 2-3 days! Anyway, lets drop this subject and concentrate on developments in the defence world.
That’s what my comment is about, it doesn’t matter much whether we buy from americans, russians or indonesians as long as it meets our requirements. Did I mention anything about not buying American?
And right, the facts from the western world is that American intervention stopped the war in Bosnia. As long as we understand where the facts come from..
cheekucai, the UN and the EU were in Bosnia and Croatia for many years, but both didn’t have the will or resources to do anything more than observing and humanitarian aid. Despite the human tragedy, a number of EU countries [France] were actually pro-Serb and like many other EU countries that contributed troops, were very wary off getting involved in the military sense. Not a single EU country was willing to do more until the US got more involved. It took US military and diplomatic influence and efforts to get all sides to the Dayton Peace Accord. All these are real FACTS not facts from ”the Western world”.
Azlan is correct. Malaysians who are anti-US, who call for a boycott of US goods and fail to recognise the importance of US to Malaysian economic well being are being intellectually dishonest.
In Marh 2009, the US also enhanced Malaysian security with the gift of a coastal surveillance radar system under a U.S. security initiative known as 1206, which provides partner nations with tools to build maritime security capacity and prevent terrorism in Southeast Asia. The US could have chosen to give the radar system to Indonesia instead(see: http://malaysia.usembassy.gov/maritime_radarhandover-021709.html).
Let me ask cheekucai: What have the Russians given Malaysia?
The RMAF is having difficulty getting the Russians to deliver what is required under contract, so let’s not talk about gifts. And China is supplying Indonesia with anti-ship missiles.
@cheekucai, as a Malaysian do you know which county is your country’s geo-strategic partner?
According to my calculation, the deal is worth RM739 billion. I must admit for starters ours would be much higher even if we purchase the same type of aircraft, the SAAB 340, due to the middleman mafia.
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RM 739 Billion ! ? I quite a little confused, which one authoritative ?
739 milion or 739 Billion !?
Misprint ? if true 739 Billion, thus if Malaysia had no AEW pun never mind about that.
Marhalim: Its million, my typo sorry. Have fixed that…