SHAH ALAM: Here are the latest buzz on the SGPV/LCS project. It appears that the Boustead proposal is not exactly the slam dunk that the company officials was wishing for.
With six foreign shipbuilders vying to become the technology partner for Boustead there is a high probability that the SGPV/LCS will look more radical than the one displayed below during Lima 2009.
One consolation for Boustead is that Thyssenkrup is one of the three bidders which are rumoured to be the favourite for the project. Thyssenkrup is the forunner of the German Naval Group which provided the Meko A100 design which resulted in the first six Kedah-class.
I had reported at Lima 2009, the Thyssenkrup version of the SGPV/LCS is similar to the Boustead candidate with the stack and all but with a flushed mounting on the forward missile compartment behind the 76 mm gun.
The bad news is that the buzz has it that the Boustead/Thyssenkrup versions are behind two other designs, both notably from Europe.
The current flavour I am told is the Sigma 10514 variant of the Enforcer series offered by Dutch company, Damen Schelde. However as this is the same variant to be built for the Indonesian Navy, it remained to be seen whether the favourite tag is just hot air.
Yes the current version of the 10514 is not equipped with a towed sonar but I guess that it could be adapted easily on Damen’s proposal to Mindef.
The darkhorse in the bid I am told is the Gowind corvette from DCNS of France.
What is interesting that both the Sigma and Gowind are primarily equipped with Thales sensors and combat systems while the Boustead SGPV remained true to its German-designed roots. But despite this, Thales, I am told is watching nervously behind their shoulders.
Why? There is a high probability that the Government Furnished Equipment (GFE) may turned out to be from other manufacturers, sensors and other equipment will be from this company while the engines, from this company of course.
The choice now of course belongs to the RMN with much input from the ministry of course. Which design will be selected? Your guess is as good as mine. We will know when we get nearer to Lima 2011.
–Malaysian Defence
If you like this post, buy me an espresso. Paypal Payment
View Comments (41)
Hmm, 6 companies. What I had in my mind right now is:
a) DCNS - Gowind Class
b) Thyssenkrup - MEKO on steroid
c) Damen Schelde - Sigma 10513
Who are the other 3 company? Rumors are saying the MEKO CSL have been offered as well. Which left another 2 and my wild guess might be Turkish - Milgem and Navantia.
What about the Finccantieri MP corvette? Had it make the cut, I think it'll be worth a go surely.
Reply
The three companies I mentioned were the favourites, I am told. Since its a long way to go before the contract, anything can happen....
If the project is new and the budget is going to be RM1 billion per ship (roughly Euro238 million)it should purchase the best hulls-namely good sea keeping states, stealth, german engines-high speed engines at that-diesel on diesel or maybe a combination of CODAG. We can also specify the very best fit for the ship too-dream of heavy calibre high speed gun, anti-aircraft guns/missiles-vertical or RAM launch, anti-ship missiles, good sonar, torpedoes, modern AESA radar.
I think the concept is the same as the just announced armoured car purchased from Turkey-we are buying the shell and equipping it our own way.
Reply
The ceiling price is RM6 billion for six ship but since the cat is out of the bag, which contractor will want it to be lowered? Thats the reason I called out the announcement for the ceiling price as a mistake. As for the rest, only the Kedah-class and Sigma corvettes have been build so far albeit the smaller version, so good sea keeping remained a theory. I am assuming that at least four diesel engines will be fitted so the SGPV/LCS will have a dash speed of around 25 knots or more. I dont think the RMN will go for gas turbines as they have a phobia for gas turbines after what happened to old Rahmat last time. An ala carte design sounds good but we need to understand integration cost money. And in the end little indigenisation really took place just local assemblies.....
Ym Lee, What 'heavy calibre high speed gun' are you refering to??
The largest gun we can fit is the 76mm Super Rapid, anything larger like a 127 or 114mm gun will need a bigger hull.
And the Thales APAR will most probably cost much, much, more than the 15 million Euro the USCG paid for it's TRS/3D's. It will be embarassing if cost overuns lead to the shorter range RAM being installed or even worse, a navalised MANPADS mount like Sadral. BAE Systems off course is only too happy to offer Seawolf 2, but the most likely candidate apart from ESSM is MICA. One thing that strikes me from looking at these modern ship designs is the lack of deck space needed for damage control work or to temporary hold captured pirates, etc..
Reply
It appears I was mistaken that the APAR was the only radar that had been integrated with the ESSM. Both the SAAB Sea Giraffe AMB and the EADS TRML 3D are also approved for the ESSM.
I was told by a DCNS rep that the Gowind multi-mission corvette can be fitted with the Aster 15 but not the 30.
To save money they can buy the launchers and sensors but buy just enough missiles for certification and commissioning for all six ships, a variant to the Fitted For but Not Equipped policy...only those in operations to be fitted with the live ordnance...
From the U.S. DoD site. Thanks to ''weasel1962'' who found the link and posted it in another forum.
''Lockheed Martin Corp., Archbald, Pa., is being awarded a $21,867,788 modification to a previously awarded firm-fixed-price contract (N00019-10-C-0092) to exercise an option for the procurement of 7,665 enhanced laser guided training round Paveway II units for the Navy (7,217) and the governments of Pakistan (300), Spain (88), and Malaysia (60). In addition, this modification provides for the procurement of 589 wooden containers for the U.S. Navy (500) and the governments of Pakistan (74) and Malaysia (15); ''
Reply
Training makes perfect... but not much to go around then....
Rahmat was a nightmare because it has 6 gas turbines. Its a nightmare in terms of the gear boxes, synchronisation and integration of the speed of the turbines. These 6 turbines are also old tech turbines.Now they dont need 6 turbines but rather they need maybe two diesels and two turbines to boost the speed when required.
Come to think of it, many countries are buying up older but surplus ships now like the oliver hazard class and modernizing them.This can be a quicker, faster, more cost effective way to go for the RMN.
lOOK AT HOW MANY YEARS OTHER COUNTRIES CAN USE THEIR f-5e, Skyhawks?. How did other countries do it?
Reply
Yes a twin RR MT30 gas turbines will be wonderful but then again it will be more expensive to buy and maintain. Why take the risk when you got people willing to do it for less (less is relative here)?
We cannot even take care of new equipment we bought. Are you willing to risk it with second hand goods?
Sir,
It has been reported that FNSS won a contract to supply jigs and maybe hull to be assembled by deftech for the PARS, around 257 of them at USD600 million or roughly RM1.9 billion at current exchange. So actually what is the early buzz that this project will cost up to RM8 billion? if they are only assembling and purchase other equipment such as the 30mm turret, 25mm cannon turret and and 12.7mm HMG turret, at most it will cost another USD600 million. So kalau cam ni at most per unit should not be more than USD6 million making it almost similar to what stood in the market i.e between USD 2.5 (for heavily equipped russian apc mainly) to USD7 million (based on chezch apc cost which now i think under investigation)per apc depending on equipment. kalau camni okla but kalau depa nak buat everything here tu yang leh jadi up to USD 10 million per apc, even more expensive than K2 tank.
Reply
RM8 billion is how much was the Letter of Intent which the government signed with DRB-Hicom (Deftech) at DSA 2010. RM8 billion is the ceiling price for the contract. Its not a made up figure. Yes, I understand that the LOI amount is the ceiling value for the contract - as explain by Dzirhan here and the final contract price could be lower.
But as far as I could remember anyway - if thats any relief - there have never been an instance that the Letter of Contract price is lower than the LOI. I stand corrected of course. Just look at the Cougar and Scorpene. And in the case of the NGPV it went higher of course.
I know its like comparing apple and oranges but if you want to sell a car to a representative of a buyer and the rep tells you that his boss has reserved RM10,000 for the car, would you be willing to sell car at RM5,000?
It will be mostly local assembly. From a Turkish report it was mentioned we are buying frames ls from FNSS not just jigs. If this is correct then we will not be involved in the actual fabrication from ore to flat steel to chassis building. If they are going to frames do you expect them to fabricate anything else from scratch?
Buying surplus hulls, like what Chile did with the Type-23's and Pakistan with the Type-21's, is certainly a cheaper and cost effective option. It is also a faster solution, BUT there are several other key factors to consider, namely the manning levels of these ships compared to newer designs [yes manpower issues are a problem in a navy the size of the RMN], these ships are older and will be mantainance intensive, and off-course the question of spares and operating costs.
Marhalim, very curious as to why the RMAF is getting 60 Paveway 2 training rounds when we only have 8 airframes. The local media didn't mention anything, but there were several foreign news reports that said the hijacked MV Leopard, had MK82 bombs for the RMAF in her cargo hold.
Reply
Yes I am curious too. But its the kind of question that is usually not answered. I am guessing that they want to train as much as possible especially against moving targets. 60 is a small batch. A US NAvy carrier air wing will used more than that to qualify for combat.
It is interesting to read you poll Marhalim with the Gowind Class is leading the poll. For me, I like both design but I have the feeling that Boustead will continue with the same design as they showcase during Lima 2009. For Sigma design, I don't think our govt will ever choose it.
Reply
Yes the Gowind is most attractive design leaving the Boustead/Thyseenkrup looking almost ancient. The Gowind was designed within the last five years while the B/T version is designed some 15 years agp. My polls are independent of the selection process. And as for the competition itself its all wayang kulit...