SHAH ALAM: ON Friday, Singapore Defence Minister launched Independence, the RSN’s first Littoral Mission Vessel (LMV). Seven more LMVs will be built to replace the Fearless-class patrol vessels (PVs), which have been in service for 20 years.
Among the key features of the LMV according to a release is the Integrated Command Centre where the ships Bridge, Combat Information Centre and Machinery Control Room are co-located.
Normally they are placed in the different areas of the ship, one reason for which is to allow the ship to function even after suffering battle damage. However for a small ship like LMV putting all the main control functions in one area would allow better cordination and moreover free up space below decks for other functions.
According to the release, the LMVs also have greater endurance than the Fearless-class vessels and are able to stay at sea for up to 14 days (3,500 nautical miles). The LMVs ability to respond rapidly to maritime security incidents is further enhanced with its faster speed in excess of 27 knots and the ability to support a medium-lift helicopter.
The vessels will be fitted with 12 VL MICA surface to air missiles. There is no mention of the SSMs. Perhaps this capability is a Fitted For but Not Equipped With for the first vessel.
Based on the specifications published, it appears that the LMV has some of the equipment fitted on RMN’s own LCS. Apart from the VL MICA, both shared the same main radar, the Thales 3D radar and both are probably housed in the same stealthy mounting.
Of course, RMN’s LCS is much bigger, some 2500 tonnes compared to the much smaller LMV. The LMV is actually slightly bigger than the missile corvettes proposed by Daewoo of South Korea.
However, unlike that project, funds for the LMV has been allocated and probably by the time we decide to recapitalise the RMN patrol fleet, RSN will have another batch of vessels already to go.
So what is the cost of an LMV? There is no official announcement but ST Marine – the builder of the LMV – secured a US$880 million to build four 75 metres PVs for the Royal Oman Navy in 2012. Based on that contract we can assume that the LMV will cost at least US$200 million (RM833 million) each.
— Malaysian Defence
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Marhalim,
Janes’s defense seem to suggest that the vl-mica has been selected above the rim-162 essm.
http://www.janes.com/article/52757/malaysia-singapore-order-vl-mica-naval-variant
first i think we wont get new vessel from southern neighbor but we should think about their Fearless-class patrol vessels… it should be in cheap price right + upgrade to suit RMN requirement? just place them at north selat melaka and also sulu sea…
The lmv was supposed to have only small multi purpose missiles such as the sea venom instead of conventional asm such as harpoons.
The lmv is designed specifically for low intensity security type of missions. To ensure the safety of waters around singapore, against non state actors such as pirates, and against small facs and corvettes.
first i think we wont get new vessel from southern neighbor but we should think about their Fearless-class patrol vessels… it should be in cheap price right + upgrade to suit RMN requirement? just place them at north selat melaka and also sulu sea…
It not fitted for but not with method. It depend on module install like anti-surface or anti mine or anti lanun or anti submarine. Modules can be mix and match too like combine anti lanun with anti submarine.
The weapon sistem on Independence is baseline model and will be on board no matter what module install. Any other extra weapon is module based.
The LMV will not carry heli but carry UAV or VTOL UAV for long range targeting.
Remember this is RSN new patrol vessel. It not corvette or frigate. So comparing it to LCS is apple to orange. But it can be in light frigate configuration depending on module install. But you will not see it unless RSN feel the threat level is high. That is the trick RSN not letting you see.
@ …..
The devil is in sensor and network node capability. The thales radar more then sufficient to lunch and fire a harpoon missile. You need to know how SAF operate. it seldom show offensive weapon sistem. To know what they intend to put as offensive weapon, look at sensor. you do not need such sensor for simple anti lanun or maritime protection effort.
But like I say this ship is replaces the Fearless class patrol ship. It main purpose is patrol. It not frigate or corvette though it can be one depending on module.
“That is the trick RSN not letting you see.” Over to Malaysia it is “now you see it, now you don’t” or “chipsmore”.
I thought dat we r going for essm… very frustating. LCS is a very capable platform but the system equiped similar to the smaller LMV
The LMVs will perform the same peacetime roles as the Fearless class; the main difference of course is that the LMVs offer much more flexibility and will be better suited for peacetime threats/challenges. In times of war, the LMVs will perform stuff like limited sea denial, escort duties, etc, enabling the Formidable class to concentrate on more demanding stuff.
I would not be surprised if there are also plans in place to get anti-mine modules for the LMVs. The RSN has 4 Bedok class MCMVs; this is well known. What is not well known is that only 3 are permanently manned and put to sea regularly. The 4th is kept at ready status, moored at Changi, ready to be put to sea if the situation demands it – things may have changed but this was the situation up to early last year.
Hmmm….. not bad. Speaking of Naval Ship stuff, i went to defencenews website that they have post a photo of M4A1+ for US Army and it’s beautiful.
Here u go:
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/tech/2015/07/04/m4a1plus-army-carbine-industry/28161275/
@ tomahawk
I have been following the lmv design with interest ever since it was mooted like around 2013 or so. I know it has advanced sensors and frankly, ships with less sensors could shoot harpoons/excocets. But that would be and overkill for its intended missions. It has always been said that it would be armed with “srgm” ie short range guided missiles and “pds” point defence systems. We now know that the “pds” is the vl mica. No news yet on what missiles they are gping to use for “srgm”, and some of current systems that matches the “srgm” moniker are the mbds sea venom. If a harpoon is considered by sing navy as “srgm”, then a harpoon it is…
Anti mine module indeed mentioned by RSN. So that why some say the 4 Landsort MCMV might replace by 2-4 more LMV for commonalty. Close to shore anti mine operation is now done by USV Venus I hear which is more cost effectif.
It not surprising tat RSN is become more blue water. Look wut is happening at South China Sea. You think the LMV is build with eye on lanun and terrorist with Aesa radar, oto melara 76mm gun, missile..? Sg is doing it part to balance the dragon. Sg way is to move quietly with big stick. The last thing SG want is for My to get hammer by the dragon as not good for region and mean one dominant power will control the sea. RSN expansion not directed at My.
The missing jigsaw puzzle now is JMMS LHD or light carrier and Victory corvette and MPA replacement. For Victory corvette and and MPA my guess is Air defence frigates and P8 or Sea Hercules. Sg also expected to buy more 218SG in batch order. Chief of Navy already say, RSN will have to become stronger.
All this will happen soon. Remember with all these FPDA will become stronger and maybe can even deploy joint battle group like NATO.
I guess VL MICA it is then, not that bad, at least an improvement to the LOS VL Sea Wolf in terms of range. And it should serve its purpose well as a point defense against in coming missiles, UAV or to some extent fighter jet. But this malaysia, maybe a surprise may come….I just hope there wont be any delay to the SGPV
Is it comfirmed that we chose VL MICA instead of ESSM?
Reply
There is no confirmation just talk. It will be up to MBDA to make the announcement unless I can get the RMN to say it which is unlikely at the moment
@ ….
SGRM is not refer to missile.
The missile apart from VL MICA never announce by Sg. SGRM refering to “super rapid gun mount” Oto melara 76mm cannon not missile.
Baseline model without module is 76mm oto melara, vl mice, typhoon cannons and guns.
Other weapon and sistem add on depend on module. Some module may not have weapon apart from baseline like anti mine module.
Interesting article: SG Oto melara might be using strales/dart round and volcano round in future (>40km precision fire):
The Strales dart is precision enough to shoot at ship properlor!
Reply
The Strales system is designed to allow the destruction of missiles. Against surface target the gun FC system is already good enough
@ …..
Always take wut Sg say with pinch of salt. Here we buy amraam to kill lanun. 🙂
“The DSCA announcement for the AMRAAM sale cited Singapore’s “contributions to counter-piracy and counterterrorism efforts” that “continue to stabilize a critical chokepoint where much of the world’s goods and services transit en route to and from the Asia Pacific region.”
My own thoughts……MY chose not be spent to much on defence…MY chose to buy small batch of defence articles…MY choose to have logistic problems with all the mix bags of different defence articles bought…MY choose to rely on its neighbours when it comes to defence….so MY cannot compare youself with SG who spent prudently on defence articles…n make defence yang pertama dan utama in their nation building……my se cepek
Tomahawk,
As I said previously , the LMV will perform various peacetime roles. In the event of war, the class will perform stuff like limited sea denial, escort work, etc.
There is little chance at the moment for regional countries to take their defence relationship to a new level: ASEAN is just not structured for it and the,various players have varying foreign policies and concerns. What we will see is increased cooperation, including behind the scenes stuff and joint training/exchanges.
@ tomahawk
I stand corrcted.
The use of commas in the documentation makes me confused.
Radin….. you really need to read the article I wrote for the M4 carbine that is now missing. The M4A1+ is pretty archaic. The RIS rail is not even a free-float unit. The fact it actually has quad-rails tells you how dated it is. The rail is short and they are still using the ‘A frame’ Front Sight Base. The stock is a plain 6-position M4 stock which is acceptable but hardly an awesome choice. That MATECH sight….is clunky and the aperture lollipop whips under recoil. I have used it extensively and don’t think much of it. The range cam is pretty useless for something you shoot on battlesight.
Not talking about Asean but FPDA. Wut possibility of some form standing joint naval force all year round to respond to crisis? The flagship can be rotated. If not carrier task group but maybe individual ship in South China Sea. All 5 navy getting stronger with fleet carrier, light carrier, air defence destroyer, frigate, lcs, lmv. It will be powerful.
VL Mica is like front end Aster without booster and pif paf. Not necessari bad thing. 20km protection bubble is like 1/3 to 1/2 of malaca state.40 km diameter. you can protect a convoy with it. Long ago both RSN and RMN did their test and decide on Aster and not ESSM. That must be reason to it. If ESSM block 2 it might take awhile becuz partner nation will get it first like F35 or pay more $$. So it might not ready by RMN timeframe. Is the on board system French? Not seen French system merge with ESSM and standard. I think RMN shld stick to VL Mica and Aster combo.
Well it does not matter. Most important get these 6 ships out, arm them to the teeth n make them capable. Another thing is we need more fac both gun armed for irregular warfare n missile armed for regualar sea denial. The places which needs them most bribg for sea control in the Sulu seas n for patrolling the south china sea spratley chains claimed by malaysia. For lager ships we should up arm our ngpvs. Patrol boats are not so expensive that it is prohibitive to own n operate.
Interestingly, the development of the LMVs were a low key affair.
Personally it’s hard to decipher what the SAF will come up with next. Just look at their motto, ‘Yang Pertama Dan Utama’. The highest budget allocation in the country, coupled that with a strong educational system, such that they have conscripts operating High-Tech weaponry!
From Jane’s and other sources, the SAF’s capabilities will multiple by 2025. More surprises coming. They started having submarines in 1995 and have 6 in their fleet now. They placed and order for Type 218SG to replace the initial 2. Heck, for all u noe, they already placed an option for another 4 of the type, to replace the remainings, making it a total of 6 in the fleet. Coupled that with the Formidables, future LHD and MMV, it will be one potent fleet, technically blue watered. And u haven include the replacements for their other assets. What I would like to note is their system of acquiring systems and training. Their 1st 2 submarines are 40yrs old products and their next 4 are old in that age segment. Smart move! Buy 2nd hand cheap subs, use it to train and develop training and operational doctrines, once all in place, then get the advanced latest system.
Look at the Air Force, how they spread their assets and training detachments. I believe the number of fighters alone in the island are not even at full strength. And they are future customers of the F35s.
The army? their arty used to be mainly towed. Suddenly, out of nowhere, out came the Primus. There’s real secrecy down south.
Combine them with our own forces and Asean, it will make a good deterrence to any trouble makers in the SCS.
“buy 2nd hand cheap stuff and develop your doctrine”
A reminder for putd gunship dreamers…
Azman,
The mind boggles: why do Malaysians keep reverting back to the Singapore theme and why do Singaporeans in certain blogs/ forums keep reverting back to the Malaysian theme? Irrespective of how much countries allocate for defence (Singapore included), the Chinese are not going to be “deterred”. They are not “deterred” by the. Yankee “pivot” (how I detest cliches); so why would they be deterred by any actions taken by ASEAN countries, either unilaterally or collectively? At the end if the day, if things get hot, how regional countries react will be determined by how the Yanks react. The biggest concern in the event of trouble with China is the economy!
Personally, a far bigger long term concern (for us) is and has always been Indonesia, not China. Ever wondered why our defence attache in Jakarta is a General (most attaches are Colonels)? In addition to Ambalat we also have unresolved maritime boundaries in the Melaka Straits and the South China Sea with Indonesia. Indonesia is determined to be a regional powerhouse and has the potential to be one; it has a large population, an influential military and unlike Singapore, is not a tiny speck on the map. I would suggest that recent moves by Malaysia and Singapore to improve defence ties, including reviving the BSA and a recent MOU, is not so much due to long terms concerns from China but closer to home.
Hi marhalim, good to see you back
We should have the ESSM for medium range defence & add another SAM for Point Defense such as the Rolling Air Frame missile. From the comment on earlier issues the ESSM is much cheaper than the ESSM. I think the RAM is also cheaper.
Azlan,
That’s an interesting point, now that Indonesia’s economy beginning to stabilize, they do seem to be more focused on modernizing their armed forces. I think their joint venture for the development of KF-X with South Korea is a brilliant move, something that we can only dream of. Plus, they have a new president which is vastly popular among the populace with a no nonsense approach to politics and foreign diplomacy.
That being said, China’s actions still should not be taken lightly. For now they are content with bullying the Philippines which has a light military presence in Spratly, the Vietnamese learned it the hard way on how the PLAN could act with impunity. We cannot rely on Singapore to deal with China, they have no stake in the dispute and its consequences. As of now, the PLAN may not be able to make a move on Swallow Reef as doing so will left their ships too far off for air support, but once they have the capability to house military aircraft in Mischief Reef, who knows?
But the real question is; what can we do?
Azlan. While its true Indonesia is an issue n their navy especially is very aggressive, China has now become another concern. Otherwise we would not be looking at upgrading our islands in the spratleys. Not only sensors would be renewed but there could also be a possibility of weapons being emplaced on our islands too
azlan, u mean the same tiny speck tt became a powerhouse out of nothing? that has $1=RM2.80? e same tiny speck tt when it’s founding PM passed away, world leaders came and foreign states orders a half mast in their own countries? Frankly, at the same discussion table, who will the foreign states listen to? the malaysians or the singaporeans? We really have to open up and learn so our own country can improve. 2020 is coming, honestly do u even believe it happening? We cant even get a simple manufacturing of arms properly executed.
what’s wrong with having a form of deterrence rather than have none at all. You can see for urself how Singapore’s bargaining power in the world is. No need to mention other Asean states. I dun think it’s called reverting. I prefer to see it as learning. Get e good practices and see if we can apply it back home. Avoid the bad practices and dun implement it back home.
If the selection of mica is true. One word only can define malaysian defence situation. Its all about buisness. They let bns which is actually psc nd choose what most profittable weapons deal they can made while tldm pay for em.
Reply
PSC ND is no more, bro. BNS is now part of Boustead Group, which is mostly owned by LTAT, the Armed Forces Provident Fund.
Why fear indonesia?no doubt indonesia is still unhappy with their lost of the 2 islands to malaysia but have been a great concern to indonesia for quite some times the growing military might of australia…..because of this country intervention PNG was split in 2.their growing fear also with their other island going PNG style n become independent islands…malaysia meant nothing to them indon can swallow malaysia easily if they wanted to..they leave malaysia to the internal political unrest to split the country……my sekupang
Malaysia and Singapore have violent history with Indonesia, during the Kofrantasi period My & Sg were basically at war with Indonesia. Even today the Indonesian in general can easily be rallied against My & Sg by their politicians. Personally I dont believe in those \”Kita Serumpun\” bs because history has tought us when push comes to shove the Indonesian still regard both My & Sg as the west\’s proxies.
with the ringgit could reach RM4 for 1USD soon, dont think our budget can entertain any further high quality western made expensive defense products (apart those already committed, even that is a big if), thus the other cheaper alternative defence manufacturers such as the Chinese, pakistan and Russia may be more attractive for us, at least in the next 3 to 5 years. The way the economics are going, upgrading/refurbishment of existing assets may be more palatable for our govt.
Mofaz the indon declare konfrantasi against SG n MY is because of the formation of malaya where by brunei..sabah..serawak..singapore were suppose to be one under 1 flag…if my history teacher taught me correct leaving the indon out n suspicious. Now its totally different ball game..the australian was found to be the instigator for PNG independence n indirectly controlling PNG…the indons are aware n are preparing…..the chinese then come into the picture n that is another ball game…why we malaysian must fear indons…if we are better planned in our defence procurement even with little money indons is nothing to fear.but then if defence is not our strong point then we are helusinating old stories…i have no base to confirm these but need to sit n mingle with their locals n ask who they fear n hate most the mat salleh down under or the smua bole country..to them the bole land is nothing but full of airs but they respect singapore alot….
Azman,
– No need to give me figure as I wasn’t belittling Singapore. I was putting emphasis on the fact that it is Indonesia that poses more concerns and has always been: Indonesia is the largest regional country (stretches from the Indian Ocean to the Pacific, it’s economy (despite internal issues) is growing, it has the largest population in the region, it has unresolved issues with us in the Celebes Sea, Melaka Straits and South China Sea and there are millions of Indonesians in this country (both registered and otherwise. Indonesia seeks to be the most influential in the region and as it gets richer and more influential; it gets more assertive, especially when it comes to overlapping claims and what it perceives are infringements of its territorial rights.
– Yes we can praise Singapore’s achievements but comparing us and them is misleading as Singapore has totally different threat perceptions, different concerns and and more money.
– I never implied we should not have a deterrent capability but this deterrent is to deal with others. It is cloud cuckoo land thinking to actually think that we can acquire a “deterrent” to “deter” China. Note that China has not been deterred by the likes of Uncle Sam and Japan.
Lee,
I never said China was not a source of concern. From open source material we know that apart from small arms, Carl Gustavs, Bofors L/70s (Layang-Layang) and MANPADs on our reefs. Unless something drastic happens we will not place anything more as this will upset the status quo. All our actions in the Spratlys are driven by the need not to upset other claimants or to raise tensions. Also, placing heavy stuff is problematic as with the exception of Layang-Layang, our reefs are the size of 2-3 basket ball courts!
Anas,
What we can do is to continue doing what we’re doing and make improvements.
– Bilateral and multi-lateral exercises. Interestingly, Malaysia and Indonesia were the first in the region to hold combined air, land and sea exercises. Exercises with Singapore started late and prior to that were held under the FPDA. Every year however, without fail SAF officers attend Haigate and more recently have also been attendees at the Defence College.
– Military exchanges and platforms like the ASEAN Rifle Meet, the ASEAN Defence Minister’s Meeting, the HADR exercise (which China participates in) and the Shang-Rila Dialogue. As these are vital as they contribute to better cooperation and closer relationships, as well as act as confidence building measures.
– Ensure we have a deterrent capability (without bankrupting the country) to meet the types of threats likely to be faced. No country, can have a military trained and equipped to deal with every type of threat.
– Continue to forge close ties with China whilst improving ties with Uncle Sam and others.
There is no reason why China would forcibly take Layang-Layang as it has nothing to gain by such an action. It would drive us further into the willing arms of Uncle Sam. As it is, we are viewed as a “friendly” country compared to Vietnam and the Philippines. Granted, Chinese ships intrude in our EEZ regularly but we have been treated lightly compared to Vietnam and the Philippines. Apart from the MH370 issue, the Chinese state media has never spewed venom on us they way it has Vietnam and the Philippines. In turn, we have never called China a threat nor criticised it’s actions over the Spratlys. As a much smaller country it is expected that we have to kow tow China; which will be the largest foreign investor here, with us China’s larger trading partner in ASEAN. We simply can’t afford to annoy China.
Well, the legacy is still there for bns. The choosing of gowind over sigma at first place tell it all about this project. The navy will never get what it want. The businessmen get what it want.
Marhalim, do police had order on cm901 ? I thougt someone at tawau or sandakan had it last time. And it definitely not bushmaster
Reply
AFAIK no the police had not ordered anything from SMEO
John Rambo
Do you know for certain that the RMN wanted the Sigma and not the Gowind?
Reply
He was probably quoting one of my reports. Yes RMN wanted the Sigma mostly because Damen were willing to allow any systems on board and at the time was not a paper ship unlike the Gowinds. Yes some one here claimed otherwise but I stand by my report.
Azlan,
Thanks for the clear answer. That’s exactly why I pose the answer, it’s virtually impossible for us to deter China militarily and they are well known for being headstrong in such matter.
Regarding Indonesia, I guess it’s just how the way it is. Indonesia has always view itself as SEA powerhouse but their aspiration were halted by the economic crisis, now with their improving economy they have the opportunity to reclaim past glory. Personally if I were them, I’d do the same thing. What I envy the most is their expediency in military procurements, and their widely positive attitude towards defence. Their acquisition of the Nakhoda Ragam frigates was a sleek move, if only we were more expedient those frigates could be ours.
Anas,
It’s very telling that the TNI is not acquiring any significant power projection capabilities. Most of the recently acquired stuff is to replace stuff that should have been replaced ages ago and to better defend their backyard. Sure the Makassar class can be used to project power but their main function is to provide lift within the vast archipelago and HADR.
I’ve said this before but even after all the recently bought stuff and the stuff they will get in the near future, the TNI is still overstretched when one takes into account the sheer size of the country and it’s shared land and maritime boundaries. As for their attitude towards defence, largely due to historical reasons the TNI occupies a more prominent place in society and is much more of a national institution when compared to the status of the MAF in Malaysia. The TNI may not be as influential as it used to be but no President can afford to offend the TNI which still is influential, has business interests and commands much respect from the public.
The number of the ships singapore is building is 9. That is one launched. One keel laying done in may n 7 more to be built
It’s anyone’s guess what China would have done if not for Uncle Sam and Japan nearby. We are small collectively but doesn’t mean we do not need any deterrent capabilities. China can laugh at TLDM by itself, but not at a united Asean.
At the end of the day, the Indonesians are still our friend. Bickerings happened all the time. Even the sings and indons have long put their past behind. Their bilateral relation are close and msia can be too.
We can’t look at our past anymore n dwell over mistakes in terms of defence. The Sings are almost self sufficient in terms of water supply. In years to come, they’ll be fully self sufficient. Even Indons are supplying them with resources. Problems with supplies from Msia, there’s still the Indonesians. Friendship between neighbours are still the best. Especially between these 3 states. Crises hit the Indonesians hard but I admire them for their efforts in rebuilding. In years to come, their systems will be fully modernised, perhaps even ahead of Singapore. Our finances are no much for them but surely, we can find better ways to improve.
Correct me if I am wrong, but if i remember correctly the philipine never gives up its claim on Sabah and i guess Indonesia also never gives up its claim to Sarawak as part of Kalimantan, even after the konfrantasi ended, no?
Reply
Yes on both counts. Philippines even got a law calling its claim on Sabah and it had not been repealed. Not sure whether Indonesia had such law though but from reading of articles on the issue most of its claims are not on Sabah and Sarawak per se but mostly on parts of the borders. I could be wrong on this though
Azman,
Everyone is years behind Singapore when it comes to funding, doctrine and tertiary capabilities; nothing the Indonesians are doing indicates they will catch up anytime soon; nor are they even trying. Nor for we are that matter (even if we had the cash).
Indonesia is a very large country and the TNI is a large service; a lot of the gear they’ve got is to reach stuff that should have been replaced years ago and even if they double their efforts, the TNI will still be overstretched by virtue of the country’s size.
Defence cooperation will improve, as well as stuff that happens behind the scenes but there will always be some level of mistrust between all players. Singapore and Indonesia may have put their past behind but small things can blow up and affect relations, as was seen recently…
“to them the bole land is nothing but full of airs” but full of airs they love that’s why they kept coming to our shores illegally ..
I sincerely believe Malaysia will get better and better. We will take a longer time. maybe 2030 maybe 2040 but it will be better. Our systems, forces, economy, education and etc. We have to bite the bullet and go through it together.
RSN LMV is more similar to the Kedah-class than the LCS, I think. Btw, is the Kedah-class capable of being fitted with SAM like the LMV, when RMN has fund for upgrades?
Marhalim
Any latest info on Malaysia’s LMV proposed by TLDM?
Reply
No
Kerberos – ”Btw, is the Kedah-class capable of being fitted with SAM like the LMV”
Only with a non deck penetrating system.
kamal – ”Indonesia also never gives up its claim to Sarawak as part of Kalimantan, even after the konfrantasi ended, no?”
We have an unresolved maritime boundary issue with Indonesia in Sarawak water but there is no Indonesian claim on Sarawak.
Reply
Not the whole Sarawak but they still lay claim to many border areas.