SHAH ALAM: RMAF 2020. In his comments for the Gripen E for Malaysia post, regular reader … stated his preference for RMAF order of battle for 2022. This what he had to say.
My personal RMAF vision2022 plan
3000 mil budget
600 mil 4x Bombardier Global 6000 Erieye AEWC, 2x Global 6000 VIP
100 mil 6x Eurocopter EC225LP 2nd hand (4x SAR, 2x OGP; CHC mass helicopter sale 2017)
220 mil 8x Challenger 605 MPA, 1x Challenger 605 utility
1400 mil 16x TA-50M
28x FA-50M100 mil 8x F/A-18D ex Kuwait
0 mil 6x F/A-18B ex Australia
300 mil 6x SU-30MKM ex India (nearly brand new)
25 mil 12x PC-7MkII ex South Africa
30 mil 35x PC-9M ex Saudi (for fighter squadron companion trainer program to save fighter flight hours)
80 mil 8x PC-24
15 mil 1x C-130H airod (short body for special forces flying support)
130mil SU-30MKM minor upgrade program
******************************
Minus sell100 mil 18x hawk 108/208 – use proceeds for F/A-18D upgrade program
120 mil 3x C-130H-30 – use proceeds for C-130 upgrade program
25 mil 7x MB-339CM – use proceeds for F/A-18D upgrade program
50 mil 12x MiG-29N – use proceeds for F/A-18D upgrade program
10 mil 1x Global Express******************************
Would give 2022 a total fighter capability of:Hi end (1 squadron – gong kedak)
24x SU-30MKM (12 operational pool, 2 standby, 6 service pool, 4 labuan QRA rotation)Mid (1 squadron – Butterworth)
16x F/A-18D (12 operational pool, 4 stanby/service pool)
6x F/A-18B (3 operational/training pool, 3 stanby/service pool)low (2 squadron – Kuantan and Labuan, 1 Lead In Fighter Training – Kuantan)
16x TA-50M (12 operational pool, 4 standby/service pool)
28x FA-50M (24 operational pool, 4 standby/service pool)
Another regular reader, AM, has commented on this saying:
These orbats and cost figures bear no relation to reality. Operating and personnel costs are completely absent. I don’t think they add anything to our knowledge
I did not want to say anything about both comments as I had approved them, meaning that at least its deserved to be made public. Anyhow listed below is what I think should be RMAF order of battle in 2020.
2 X F-18C/D Hornet Squadron
18 X FA-18C/D Hornet (C, ex-Kuwait AF aircraft, 3 Ds from RMAF). Gong Kedak/Labuan AB
18 X FA-18C/D Hornet (C, ex-Kuwait AF aircraft, 3 Ds from RMAF). Kuantan/Labuan AB
1 FA-18D LIFT/OCU Squadron
8 FA-18D Hornet (6 Ds, ex-Kuwait AF aircraft, 2 Ds from RMAF) Butterworth
2 X Hercules Squadron
Aircraft upgraded with ro-ro for ISR/CAS
20th Squadron, Subang
14th Squadorn, Labuan
1 A400m Squadron
22nd Squadron, Subang
1 CN-235 Squadron
Five CN-235-200Ms modified as MPA with Thales AMASCOS system
Four CN-235-220ms newly purchased from IPTN fitted for ASW
The MPA aircraft could still be used for utility and transport role. Two other CN-235s are used for VIP transport based in Subang.
1st Squadron, Kuching
2 X EC725 Squadron
12 X EC725, 10th Squadron, Kuantan and Butterworth AB
12 X EC725, 7th Squadron, Kuching and Labuan
1 Globaleye Squadron
4 Saab Globaleye AEW aircraft. Labuan/Subang
All the aircraft not listed here should be retired already. Note that the list does not include the aircraft at Kolej Tentera Udara and Subang used for training purposes. The cost of procuring the four Globaleyes and four CN-235 ASW should be around RM3 billion while 12 new EC725s should cost around RM1 billion.
The 36 Kuwaiti Hornets could be acquired from as low as RM100 million, if no extensive upgrading is called for. Another RM1 billion would be spent on upgrading of the Hercules and Cn-235s while around RM3 billion should be used to buy new ordnance, missiles, guided munitions and unguided ones for the whole fleet.
Is RM5 billion enough to recapitalise the RMAF so it remain a credible force beyond 2020? Barely, I think. But based on the current economic situation I think that its the limit the government can spend on the RMAF alone. By retiring four fast jets at the same time (Flanker, Fulcrum, Hawk and Aermacchi) the money saved from their maintenance could be used to get the new aircraft mentioned above.
The new aircraft are optional extras, based on funds available around that period. Oh, yes, 2 Skuadron (VIP Squadron) will continue as well.
* This an updated version of the earlier post. The last paragraph is added for clarity.
— Malaysian Defence
If you like this post, buy me an espresso. Paypal Payment
View Comments (48)
Assalamualaikum dear sir,
I think the opinion that been given is realistic and exceptable based on our economic situation. RMAF will have more assets even we will loose our beloved fulcrum, but will get more hornet and freshly globaleye in our inventory.For me, I really agree with your suggestion. "TAK DAPAT ROTAN AKAR PUN BERGUNA."
Why would you want to retire the Flankers? They are newer and much more capable than F-18 C/Ds
Reply
The negatives outweigh the positive
MALAYSIA deserve better than this i think...future leader,,pls take note.
Does RMAF or our goverment already negociating with kuwait about their F18?
Reply
No
*Retire the Flankers ? Don't not retire for it. But my suggestion is we better Scraped the MRCA And Buy additional MKM and Legacy Hornets
Flanker is the latest MRCA and retiring them without selling them off would be wasteful. The long range of the Flanker is needed if TUDM wants any chance of having air superiority above the South China Sea. The F/A-18 could be best used until only up till 2035 the latest. Using F/A-18 as LIFT is expensive, and a wasteful consumption of precious hornet flight hours.
As for helicopters:
CHC helicopter (as per 2017) is selling off 21x EC225 as they don't want to use any of them after the crashes in oil and gas industry. We could buy some for normal utility and normal SAR/HADR missions (no need for full spec Combat SAR capabilities). Used EC225 (plus additional military radios etc) is less than usd15mil each (new commercial EC225 is around usd18-20mil). Additional 6 EC225 plus 12 current EC725 would give 8 heli for each squadron, plus 2 rotation to esscom.
For MPA:
the Challenger 605 MPA would combine the range of the Orion but with a similar capability of a smaller CN-235 for the same price of CN-235.
-used challenger 605 usd10mil
-MPA system; VIDAR, FLIR turret, AIS, AESA maritime radar (vixen 5000 or equivalent) usd15mil.
TUDM has experience flying challenger 601 previously, and is similar to the global express/global 6000 VIP aircraft.
For companion trainer program
MKM and hornet crews to have annual flying hours in their fighters plus the PC-9. 120hrs fighter, 50hrs PC-9, plus simulator hours. Companion trainer would save precious fighter flight hours for tasks like basic pilot skills practice, navigation practice, off airbase trainings etc. The flight cost of the companion trainer is something like 1/20th of the fighter flight cost. So can do cost cutting while still giving fighter pilots chance to fly.
The AEW system:
The saab Erieye system costs somewhere around usd100mil each, with a secondhand global 6000 (3-4 years old) for usd30mil. 11hours endurance. No need for super expensive globaleye (erieye+maritime radar) system (usd600mil each)
Three IF; 1- If Kuwait is interested to letgo those Hornet. 2-If USA allowed Hornet to moved out to MY. 3-If MY politics are interested on those 2nd hand fighter planes.
The trend of MY defence acquisition since year 2000 is mostly "fresh from the factory", and IMHO, MRCA will be new ones too.
Fast forward to decade 2020, I think we have to include elements of UAV for RMAF. IMHO by that time, the technology will be more matured, more platform to choose from and prices more competitive.
@ Marhalim,
RM 5 billion (usd 1.1bil) cannot buy the 4x Saab Globaleye that you want. UAE bought 2x Globaleye for usd1.27bil. As for the kuwaiti hornets i think we need to buy it from them or else surely USMC will buy them wholesale. Each basic CN-235MPA would cost about rm100mil. I believe TUDM should lobby to get similar development budgets as TLDM (around usd3bil), but telling the government that you would burn it all on superduper MRCA's isn't the best thing to convince them.
https://youtu.be/FFrag8ll85w
BTW My vision2022 squadron Orbat:
1 Skn 7x CN-235-220 - Kuching
2 Skn 1x Airbus A319CJ, 1x Airbus A320CJ, 1x Falcon 900, 2x Global 6000 - Subang
3 Skn 8x S-61A-4 Nuri - Butterworth
5 Skn 6x EC725, 3x EC225 - Labuan
6 Skn 14x FA-50 - Labuan
7 Skn 8x S-61A-4 Nuri - Kuching
8 Skn 8x PC-24 - Subang (utility, multi engine training)
9 Skn 4x Global 6000 Erieye AEW&C - Gong Kedak
10 Skn 6x EC725, 3x EC225 - Kuantan
11 Skn 24x SU-30MKM - Gong Kedak (QRA Labuan)
12 Skn inactive
14 Skn 4x C-130H-30, 2x KC-130H - Labuan
15 Skn 16x TA-50 (3FTC) - Kuantan
16 Skn 8x Challenger 605 MPA, 1x Challenger 605 utility - Subang
17 Skn 14x FA-50 - Kuantan
18 Skn 16x F/A-18D, 6x F/A-18B - Butterworth
19 Skn inactive
20 Skn 2x C-130H-30, 2x C-130H, 2x KC-130H - Subang
21 Skn 2x AS-61N-1 Silver, 2x VIP Blackhawk - Subang
22 Skn 4x A400M - Subang
1 FTC 33x PC-7 MkII - Alor Setar (21+12=33)
2 FTC 6x EC120
others:
3x B200T MPA transfer to MMEA
@ Marhalim,
LoL!
The money could be found but it wouldn't be a great selling point if 90% of the budget is spent on 12 MRCA with dubious relevency towards current malaysian defence needs.
It would be more convincing if the spending is spread for many operational areas; like on MPA, for maritime surveillance; AEW, for air surveillance; cost saving initiatives by replacing 3 legacy fighters (Mig/hawk/mb-339) with 1 (TA/FA-50); selling some hercules to fund their upgrades etc etc.
We have seen great initiatives from the navy's top leadership, hopefully some plans would come out from the new airforce leadership.
As I've indicated previously, buying pre-used platforms are not a good idea; even if they're low houred and are in good condition. Things tend to break down more often as they age and platforms - even low houred ones - tend to be more maintenance intensive and require more inspections due to age. Irrespective of the fact that they're low houred, the key fact remains that Kuwait's Hornets are still on average 23 or more years old - deliveries started in 1992. There is also the question of how much spares Boeing will continue to produce for legacy 'C' models over the next decade or so. Note that some key components on the 'D' and 'C' are not common.
On the MPAs, the RMAF will argue [and it has] that as most of the missions new MPAs will perform are maritime centric, that the budget should come from the RMN. Problem here is that the RMN has neither the budget or the infrastructure to operate MPAs. Granted, there are a lot of administrative/bureaucratic issue to sort out but on paper the most logical solution would be for RMAF operated and maintained MPAs under joint control, with mix RMN/RMAF sensor crews but for the operational budget to partly come from the RMN.
Given that ASW [and AsuW] from fix wing platforms are expensive to get into and also to maintain the needed skill sets [as well as having the trained people and infrastructure to maintain the torps, ASMs ans sonabuoys]; I would rather have future MPAs have as their main roles surveillance, SAR and other roles including OTHT. For the time being emphasis on airborne ASW should be placed on helos.