hehehe…. it’s a signal that the RMAF will order Typhoon for MRCA pgrame….
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No lah. Its just a nice picture of an aeroplane.
sir,is it because u dah ketandusan idea nak karang cerita lgi hehehe
Reply
I am nursing a bad toothache, regular service will come on later…
RMAF is keen on the Rafale now. Typhoon performance cant match the Rafale. Rafale is cheaper too.
Reply
On Rafale being cheaper than Typhoon, can you point us to the right direction?
Sir,why not for a change u look into equipment of MAF,and compare it with other armed forces,so that changes can be done,example ballistic jacket,webbing,camo uniform,boots,food rations.these are small things that will boost the moral of each individual soldier,if ever they were send to overseas operations.
Reply
Its no used comparing to others, when for example body armour are only used on case by case basis. Those who go for UN missions get better personal equipment than those for example deployed for Ops Pasir. It is better for us to go into such issues rather than comparing with other armed forces. And when comparing which armed forces then? We cannot compare with NATO forces, nor even the Singaporeans!
nice, but somehow i do agree with Tajul
Reply
I don’t have any sway over what’s happening at Jalan Padang Tembak . I assumed I know a thing or two but sometimes even those are misconceptions.
Based on the Indian bid between those 2 fighters, Rafale is cheaper than Typhoon, according to some sites in the net. At least 5% less.
We should really get more used military hardware from europe..with state of their financial system..i bet most of them will having garage sales for their navies and air force.
Royal Navy will eventually be reduced to a mere 30 combatant ships.
I am more of the believe that RMN should be left with only 18 combatant-being 6 multipurpose frigates, 6 Corvettes and 6 subs. let all the patrol being left to MMEA. Just my believe anyway.
Well if talk about cheap purchase for aircraft, its hard to beat the SU 30/35, about 60-70% of rafale,typhoon or SH but the maintenance cost gonna double la kut
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Your plan will mean that RMN should have 1 3 star, 1 2 star, 1 1 star and the rest as Captains only.
Yes, we should have 100 MKMs on the record. At 50 % reliability, we have 50 planes ready to fly…
sir,i read tempur magazine,and it sound convincing that RMAF is buying gripen NG,because of the Awacs n Mpa that comes with it,mcm mana pls explain
enchik kamal,for what i know lah,to patrol the whole of malaysia je,NGPV u nak kena ada 27 to 28 biji,1 sqd in selat melaka,laut cina selatan,sabah n serawak waters,tu blum termasuk support ship eg,MPSS 4 biji,refueling ship,frigate n corvette,lain pulak 4 biji sub for clandestine work n sigint work.just my thought je
What we should get our hands on is some of the 65 C-130s the USAF is going to planning to divest itself of:
They could be overhauled and upgraded to C-130H(-30) standard locally at a significant savings over new aircraft. In addition any work would be building on already established local experience with the C-130.
Nanonano,
The IAF is buying a 100 odd fighters, in the unlikely event that we do buy the Rafale the most we can afford will be 18 – do you seriously expect that we will be offered Rafales at the same price as has been offered to the IAF?
Marhalim,
From the model of the Gowind that was displayed at LIMA, did you notice a mission bay at the stern for the launching of RHIBs?
It would be interesting to find out who at RMN HQ or at MINDEF decided to call the programme the LCS – especially given that the ”LCS” will have no UAVs or USVs or anything else like special mine hunting gear, for dedicated littoral work.
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I believe there is no mission bay at the Gowind frigate rear as it would be the place for VDS gear. Based on the DCNS model, they will have side openings to allow boats to be launched. As for the UUVs we will have to wait for someone to come up with a UUV version of the Aludra before any movement towards such robots in MAF. I prefer the Scaneagle UAV/ Remus UUV for our forces but I guess its more important for a national UAV/UUV project before anything else….
Based on the latest report by Swiss newspapers, Rafale cost around RM519 million each
En. reddot, that is why i proposed patrolling done by MMEA, but you are rightla, 18 may not be adequate.
Wow Rafale cost RM519 mil or approximately USD170 million at current exchange rate. SU35 max USD70 mil or RM210 mil. Gripen around USd70- USd80 mil a piece all in…hmmmm
Reply
Yes the Gripen is the cheapest with Super Hornet in the number the two position (around USD130-150 million). We can get the Super Hornet around the price of the Gripen, no engines and other things, just like the US Navy but then …..
To me, what’s more important than the actual cost of the aircraft is it’s operating and support costs. No doubt, the Gripen has the advantage of being cheaper to fly, but then this is largely because it is a single engine aircraft. Others advantages the Gripen has over the Typhoon is that it has already been integrated with a wider range of air to air and air to ground ordnance and can be offered with the Erieye as a package. On paper, for reasons of commonality, the Super Hornet, in my view, is still the best option. And it goes without being said that product support from Boeing and the USN, via FMS, is superior to anything offered by BAE Systems or Dassault or Robonoexsport.
Marhalim,
You’re right there is no mission bay on the Gowind design selected by us. The Gowind OPV version however, that is on loan to the French Navy for 3 years, has a mission bay for RHIBs and is supposedly the first naval vessel to have dedicated facilities for UAV and USVs. A common feature all versions of the Gowind share is a panoramic bridge [unsure what this means!] and an integrated mast.
It seems the crew quarters on the French OPV are like a 5 star hotel and were all obtained COTS. Wonder if the LCS will share this feature? Would also be very interesting to find out how the Gowinds radar,IR and acoustic signatures compare to the Kedah class.
Reply
IMHO that RMN capital ships should not be saddled with mission bays. It detract from their combat mission. That said a corvette configured for patrol/MCMV should be available for this kind of duties. As I mentioned before 6 AWD destroyers and 12 patrol/MCMV corvettes should be RMN fleet of the future. MMEA could do all the other stuff in peacetime and be MCMV in war time
I would be shocked if India went for the Rafale.
The decision is immenient but like all things military in India , it could be in March.
The Typhoon consortium, facing the financial problems in thier respective countries need this deal. The initial deal could be expanded to more than the 126 now.
They are offering India a seat at thier table,complete access to thier technology,full partnership in all new developements in the future, no restrictions on use, support will be given in whatever emergency.
This is a sweet deal BUT KEY is how the Indians negotiate the deal and what they actually sign. In other words read the fine print.Make sure the Euro dudes keep thier word.
France , squeezed the Indians on the Mirage upgrade too much, on cost and timeline .
TO upgrade 51 planes , starts with 3 years to upgrade 2 planes in France then the rest in India.
What exactly are they going to do for 3 years? have 10 coffee breaks a day? 3 years for 2 planes?
The Indians signed the deal anyway . I dont think they are going to get in bed with the French again.
However, with the right perfume, this crazy world might still have a crazy finale.
If India goes for the Typhoons,Malaysia might just do the same. The plane might even be produced in India or spare parts ,training and support will be avaliable.
The Gripen idea makes economical sense.
Would that attract the interest of our Gov?
Reply
Yes India will be the bellwether for our own MRCA though I still think the SHornet remained the 100 pound gorilla of the programme. It would have been wonderful if they had selected the Gripen instead of the MKM. Now it will be better for them to buy another 78 MKMs.
I read in a blog yesterday that says that our Malaysian PT-91’s has to stop before it can shoot and not shoot on the move.Is this true please?
Reply
Its Hakimjoe piece on MT right? Of course the PT91M can fire on the move.
The Gripen actually makes sense in more than one way. Its engine is the F414 which is based on the F404 that powers the F/A-18Ds so it will be somewhat familiar to the ground crew.
It is also designed to be easy to maintain, and to be low maintenance. This means that they’ll be flying more often.
The Swiss, and the Thais are using the Gripen as a replacement for the F-5, which the RMAF already flies. Not to mention they could use it to eventually replace the Hawks as well.
The single engine argument is bogus. The Swedes have a long coastline, and do a lot of their flying over water. They have settled on single engine aircraft over the past 40 years. You would think they know what they are doing.
Reply
Most of us are aware of the attributes of the Gripen. The problem is how to get the fighter jockeys excited and the politicians salivating…..
Ym Lee,
Even T-54s and T-55s, that were first designed in the 1950’s, had stabilised guns that allowed shooting on the move.
@ymlee: The tank can fire on the move.
The only reason if the story has merit, would be one of the systems is out or poor maintenance, wrong spare parts or something.
Reply
And no simulator system…
Ym Lee,
All tanks can shoot on the move. Whether or not they can do so with any accuracy is another question. While the main guns are stabilized, there is a lot more that goes into it: speed of the tank, terrain being crossed, turret direction, suspension, sighting systems, crew proficiency and so on. Add to that the difficulty if the the target itself is moving.
Reply
I am guessing YmLee is wondering whether the Pendekar also has the capability to have one shot, one kill while on the move.
It seems that the Rafale will fly in Indian AF colours after all…
Several Indian news agencies are reporting the Rafale deal. I am pleased: I have always believed in this Dassault fighter.
I am in shock, guess was right about perfumes.
Looks like Rafale it is for India.
But prefer to wait for official announcements just to be sure.
In India , until its actually signed , there’s always room to manouvere.
hehehe…. it’s a signal that the RMAF will order Typhoon for MRCA pgrame….
Reply
No lah. Its just a nice picture of an aeroplane.
sir,is it because u dah ketandusan idea nak karang cerita lgi hehehe
Reply
I am nursing a bad toothache, regular service will come on later…
RMAF is keen on the Rafale now. Typhoon performance cant match the Rafale. Rafale is cheaper too.
Reply
On Rafale being cheaper than Typhoon, can you point us to the right direction?
Sir,why not for a change u look into equipment of MAF,and compare it with other armed forces,so that changes can be done,example ballistic jacket,webbing,camo uniform,boots,food rations.these are small things that will boost the moral of each individual soldier,if ever they were send to overseas operations.
Reply
Its no used comparing to others, when for example body armour are only used on case by case basis. Those who go for UN missions get better personal equipment than those for example deployed for Ops Pasir. It is better for us to go into such issues rather than comparing with other armed forces. And when comparing which armed forces then? We cannot compare with NATO forces, nor even the Singaporeans!
nice, but somehow i do agree with Tajul
Reply
I don’t have any sway over what’s happening at Jalan Padang Tembak . I assumed I know a thing or two but sometimes even those are misconceptions.
Based on the Indian bid between those 2 fighters, Rafale is cheaper than Typhoon, according to some sites in the net. At least 5% less.
We should really get more used military hardware from europe..with state of their financial system..i bet most of them will having garage sales for their navies and air force.
Royal Navy will eventually be reduced to a mere 30 combatant ships.
I am more of the believe that RMN should be left with only 18 combatant-being 6 multipurpose frigates, 6 Corvettes and 6 subs. let all the patrol being left to MMEA. Just my believe anyway.
Well if talk about cheap purchase for aircraft, its hard to beat the SU 30/35, about 60-70% of rafale,typhoon or SH but the maintenance cost gonna double la kut
Reply
Your plan will mean that RMN should have 1 3 star, 1 2 star, 1 1 star and the rest as Captains only.
Yes, we should have 100 MKMs on the record. At 50 % reliability, we have 50 planes ready to fly…
sir,i read tempur magazine,and it sound convincing that RMAF is buying gripen NG,because of the Awacs n Mpa that comes with it,mcm mana pls explain
enchik kamal,for what i know lah,to patrol the whole of malaysia je,NGPV u nak kena ada 27 to 28 biji,1 sqd in selat melaka,laut cina selatan,sabah n serawak waters,tu blum termasuk support ship eg,MPSS 4 biji,refueling ship,frigate n corvette,lain pulak 4 biji sub for clandestine work n sigint work.just my thought je
What we should get our hands on is some of the 65 C-130s the USAF is going to planning to divest itself of:
http://www.defense.gov/news/Defense_Budget_Priorities.pdf
They could be overhauled and upgraded to C-130H(-30) standard locally at a significant savings over new aircraft. In addition any work would be building on already established local experience with the C-130.
Nanonano,
The IAF is buying a 100 odd fighters, in the unlikely event that we do buy the Rafale the most we can afford will be 18 – do you seriously expect that we will be offered Rafales at the same price as has been offered to the IAF?
Marhalim,
From the model of the Gowind that was displayed at LIMA, did you notice a mission bay at the stern for the launching of RHIBs?
It would be interesting to find out who at RMN HQ or at MINDEF decided to call the programme the LCS – especially given that the ”LCS” will have no UAVs or USVs or anything else like special mine hunting gear, for dedicated littoral work.
Reply
I believe there is no mission bay at the Gowind frigate rear as it would be the place for VDS gear. Based on the DCNS model, they will have side openings to allow boats to be launched. As for the UUVs we will have to wait for someone to come up with a UUV version of the Aludra before any movement towards such robots in MAF. I prefer the Scaneagle UAV/ Remus UUV for our forces but I guess its more important for a national UAV/UUV project before anything else….
Based on the latest report by Swiss newspapers, Rafale cost around RM519 million each
En. reddot, that is why i proposed patrolling done by MMEA, but you are rightla, 18 may not be adequate.
Wow Rafale cost RM519 mil or approximately USD170 million at current exchange rate. SU35 max USD70 mil or RM210 mil. Gripen around USd70- USd80 mil a piece all in…hmmmm
Reply
Yes the Gripen is the cheapest with Super Hornet in the number the two position (around USD130-150 million). We can get the Super Hornet around the price of the Gripen, no engines and other things, just like the US Navy but then …..
To me, what’s more important than the actual cost of the aircraft is it’s operating and support costs. No doubt, the Gripen has the advantage of being cheaper to fly, but then this is largely because it is a single engine aircraft. Others advantages the Gripen has over the Typhoon is that it has already been integrated with a wider range of air to air and air to ground ordnance and can be offered with the Erieye as a package. On paper, for reasons of commonality, the Super Hornet, in my view, is still the best option. And it goes without being said that product support from Boeing and the USN, via FMS, is superior to anything offered by BAE Systems or Dassault or Robonoexsport.
Marhalim,
You’re right there is no mission bay on the Gowind design selected by us. The Gowind OPV version however, that is on loan to the French Navy for 3 years, has a mission bay for RHIBs and is supposedly the first naval vessel to have dedicated facilities for UAV and USVs. A common feature all versions of the Gowind share is a panoramic bridge [unsure what this means!] and an integrated mast.
It seems the crew quarters on the French OPV are like a 5 star hotel and were all obtained COTS. Wonder if the LCS will share this feature? Would also be very interesting to find out how the Gowinds radar,IR and acoustic signatures compare to the Kedah class.
Reply
IMHO that RMN capital ships should not be saddled with mission bays. It detract from their combat mission. That said a corvette configured for patrol/MCMV should be available for this kind of duties. As I mentioned before 6 AWD destroyers and 12 patrol/MCMV corvettes should be RMN fleet of the future. MMEA could do all the other stuff in peacetime and be MCMV in war time
I would be shocked if India went for the Rafale.
The decision is immenient but like all things military in India , it could be in March.
The Typhoon consortium, facing the financial problems in thier respective countries need this deal. The initial deal could be expanded to more than the 126 now.
They are offering India a seat at thier table,complete access to thier technology,full partnership in all new developements in the future, no restrictions on use, support will be given in whatever emergency.
This is a sweet deal BUT KEY is how the Indians negotiate the deal and what they actually sign. In other words read the fine print.Make sure the Euro dudes keep thier word.
France , squeezed the Indians on the Mirage upgrade too much, on cost and timeline .
TO upgrade 51 planes , starts with 3 years to upgrade 2 planes in France then the rest in India.
What exactly are they going to do for 3 years? have 10 coffee breaks a day? 3 years for 2 planes?
The Indians signed the deal anyway . I dont think they are going to get in bed with the French again.
However, with the right perfume, this crazy world might still have a crazy finale.
If India goes for the Typhoons,Malaysia might just do the same. The plane might even be produced in India or spare parts ,training and support will be avaliable.
The Gripen idea makes economical sense.
Would that attract the interest of our Gov?
Reply
Yes India will be the bellwether for our own MRCA though I still think the SHornet remained the 100 pound gorilla of the programme. It would have been wonderful if they had selected the Gripen instead of the MKM. Now it will be better for them to buy another 78 MKMs.
I read in a blog yesterday that says that our Malaysian PT-91’s has to stop before it can shoot and not shoot on the move.Is this true please?
Reply
Its Hakimjoe piece on MT right? Of course the PT91M can fire on the move.
The Gripen actually makes sense in more than one way. Its engine is the F414 which is based on the F404 that powers the F/A-18Ds so it will be somewhat familiar to the ground crew.
It is also designed to be easy to maintain, and to be low maintenance. This means that they’ll be flying more often.
The Swiss, and the Thais are using the Gripen as a replacement for the F-5, which the RMAF already flies. Not to mention they could use it to eventually replace the Hawks as well.
The single engine argument is bogus. The Swedes have a long coastline, and do a lot of their flying over water. They have settled on single engine aircraft over the past 40 years. You would think they know what they are doing.
Reply
Most of us are aware of the attributes of the Gripen. The problem is how to get the fighter jockeys excited and the politicians salivating…..
Ym Lee,
Even T-54s and T-55s, that were first designed in the 1950’s, had stabilised guns that allowed shooting on the move.
@ymlee: The tank can fire on the move.
The only reason if the story has merit, would be one of the systems is out or poor maintenance, wrong spare parts or something.
Reply
And no simulator system…
Ym Lee,
All tanks can shoot on the move. Whether or not they can do so with any accuracy is another question. While the main guns are stabilized, there is a lot more that goes into it: speed of the tank, terrain being crossed, turret direction, suspension, sighting systems, crew proficiency and so on. Add to that the difficulty if the the target itself is moving.
Reply
I am guessing YmLee is wondering whether the Pendekar also has the capability to have one shot, one kill while on the move.
It seems that the Rafale will fly in Indian AF colours after all…
Several Indian news agencies are reporting the Rafale deal. I am pleased: I have always believed in this Dassault fighter.
I am in shock, guess was right about perfumes.
Looks like Rafale it is for India.
But prefer to wait for official announcements just to be sure.
In India , until its actually signed , there’s always room to manouvere.
Rafale ,huh?