SHAH ALAM: In an earlier article on the Nukol Makina Panthera 4X4, Malaysian Defence wrote that the vehicles were already in Lebanon despite no official word on them. They were delivered earlier this year but their entry into service was delayed due to documentation issues.
From the post:
As reported previously, the Pantheras were expected to be delivered to Lebanon last year but it was delayed due to difficulties met by the manufacturers. I have been told that the Pantheras has been delivered to Lebanon already but documentation issues are delaying its entry into service with Malbatt 850-11.
The documentation issues, it appears, have been resolved and the twenty Pantheras are expected to achieve their IOC this month. This was confirmed in a social media post by the Joint Force Command which was posted today.
πππππππ πππππ πππππ ππππ ππππππ πππππ ππππ ππππππ ππππππππ πππππππ ππ πππππππ πππ-ππ
SELATAN LUBNAN, 8 Apr 24 β Lawatan Mejar Jeneral Dato’ Hj Fazal bin Hj Abdul Rahman, Ketua Staf Markas Angkatan Bersama (KS MK AB) serta delegasi pada hari kelima dimulakan dengan sesi taklimat pengoperasian Kenderaan Perisai (KP) 4×4 PANTHERA bertempat di Padang Kawad, Kem Marakah.Taklimat ini telah disampaikan oleh Kapten Muhammad Wahi bin Mohd Khir selaku Battle Captain. Sejurus selepas taklimat, KS MK AB serta delegasi merasai pengalaman joy ride KP 4×4 PANTHERA di sekitar kawasan Kem Marakah. Sebanyak 3 buah KP 4×4 PANTHERA terlibat dengan acara ini.
Sejurus selepas taklimat, KS MK AB dan delegasi melaksanakan lawatan ke semua kemudahan dan fasiliti yang terdapat di Kem Marakah sebelum meneruskan lawatan ke semua elemen. KS MK AB diperkenalkan kepada Pegawai dan Anggota di setiap elemen disusuli dengan taklimat berkaitan perkara gerak, tadbir dan logistik elemen. KS MK AB juga telah ditaklimatkan maklum balas penemuan semasa proses serah menyerah bersama MALBATT 850-10.
From the pictures, we know that the documentation issues have been resolved as the Pantheras were equipped with UNIFIL plate numbers. Just like the Condors, Guardians, and the Cendana Auto FFR.
As noted previously, the Panthera is equipped with a remote weapon station which is the Aselsan STAMP. The machine gun on the RWS is the Canik M2 12.7mm, the same weapon as the ones on the RMN Gading G2000 Mark II fast combat boats. The M2 was selected as in emergencies, the gun could still be fired when taken off the RWS on both platforms. The M3 variant of the same gun could only be fired remotely.
The Canik gun costs around RM120,000 compared to US Ordnance made one which cost around RM200K per gun, which the Army also bought previously. The FN Herstal one costs some RM400K.
Selamat Hari Raya Aidil Fitri. Maaf Zahir dan Batin.
— Malaysian Defence
If you like this post, buy me an espresso. Paypal Payment
Selamat Hari Rayaπ₯³
“Canik gun RM120,000 ..US Ordnance RM200K.. FN Herstal RM400K.”
What the h.. is there even a technical reason why Western made ones are that expensive? Considering M2 likely have long ceased patent so an exact copy from anywhere is allowed. But is the FN version has better accuracy or durability/function to warrant going so high?
Anyways good to see the Condors getting perhaps a final photoshoot. Perhaps rather than just cutting to pieces, they could be donated to the Lebanese Armed Forces.
Given the mine/IIED threat faced and the fact the Condors have been heavily used and are aged; Iβd question whether the Lebanese army which has Bradleys, M-113s and other vehicles; would want the Condors.
I would guess that FNβs oneβs are expensive because they carry the βFNβ mark; a company long established as a designer, innovator and producer of widely operated small arms which are well built and ubiquitous; some of which have become iconic. Another issue I suppose are costs associated with producing something in Belgium.
Had no idea HMGs were that pricey.
Yes, it would be cheaper if we bought them directly. That is why the Army has only a few of them outside the purchase of vehicles equipped with them. One unit for example has only four of them. Though the Army is looking to buy a dozen or so for them.
From what Iβve heard until the early 1990βs when we bought or received them for the MIFVs we only had a handful; those on the South Korean 4x4s. Even today Iβm guessing that the only infantry units who have them are the ones with VAMTACs and G-Wagons.
Yes on the infantry units with the HMG. Now they are putting them on the Cendana Auto vehicles which replaces the G-Wagons and Vamtacs. They are too heavy to be deployed on their own.
Why are the VAMTACs being replaced? Too worn out? The Pinzgauers were retired early because we had issues maintaining them; from what I hear.
We have MAGs and mini guns on pintle mounts which we use for counter UAS/drone work [as seen in a recent exercise] but I have no idea if they belong to GAPU. It would make sense to have a Canik/M2 on a AA mount to counter UASs as it has a range advantage over the MAG and mini gun and makes a bigger blast.
Thereβs an article out there about how the Ukrainians are effectively shooting down low flying UASs and loitering munitions with light, medium and heavy MGs but of course the trick is early alerting. The MGs are paired with radars and acoustic systems. Something which is very innovative is the placing of phones and loudspeakers on hundreds of 6 foot poles to provide AD units with warning.
As it stands the only MANPADs units we have are Starstreak with 2 radars [not the RMAF unit though]. This is one of a long list of things which needs to be rectified. Canβt expect a MANPADs operator to be scanning the skies with his weapon on his shoulder indefinitely; too short a window and the seeker takes time to be ready. Use it to long and the battery wears out. In an ideal world units would have a IFV fitted with a MANPADs mount with an alerting device and jammer [should have been done with the AV-8 but water under the bridge; insufficient funding].
The Giraffes used to be paired with the BOFIS [at one point the same regiment operated Igla] and the GDF has Skyguard. As for the TRS-3Ds my guess is theyβre used for general alerting and not for a particular GAPU regiment per see. And info would be passed by voice rather than electronically.
I am not sure really on the Vamtacs but I am guessing its like the Pinzgauers really.
Other than branding & Made in Belgium (FNs are also made elsewhere these days), Id expect better performant for the cost really. SIG and H&K rifles warrants their higher unit prices in comparison to other makes due to their better durability and more consistently accurate longer range targeting. So Id expect something similar from FN vs some others like Canik or whatnot.
Bradleys, yes. But the M113 are around the same era as the Condor so not much more mine/IED survivable in comparison. It be a was if not continue to use by their armed forces or at least their militia.
I have zero idea if βSIG and H&K rifles warrants their higher unit prices in comparison to other makes due to their better durability and more consistently accurate longer range targetingβ [I would think this is very subjective depending on user preference] but I do know that FN has been around much longer; has made several guns which were widely adopted [the FAL/SLR is often called the left arm of the Western world] and guns which were more widely adopted numbers wise.
As for the Condor I really doubt if the Lebanese would want it. Apart from being aged and worn out it has limited off road capability due to being a 4×4 and doesnβt offer them much over what they currently have.