SHAH ALAM: The Army is getting a new training device which is the RPG-7 sub calibre training system. This was revealed by the Defence Ministry by issuing a tender for a multi-modal transport operator (MTO) to ship back these devices.
Note that the sub calibre device replicates the firing of a standard PG-7 high explosive anti-tank round. In most of these devices, the rocket motor has been replaced with a firing assembly for a standard AK 47 tracer cartridge.
A Czech made RPG 7 sub calibre device. Internet.
As usual I have no idea how many or where are these devices are being imported as I am not in the MTO business. I am guessing that they bought these training devices from Pakistan as the country has two manufacturers which markets the RPG 7 sub calibre system.
RPG 7 with a sub calibre device, most likely from Eastern Europe. Internet
One of the Pakistani manufacturers is the state-owned Pakistan Machine Tool Factory (PMTF) the likely source of the Army’s RPG 7 launchers. Unfortunately, the company’s website did not offer further details on its RPG 7 sub calibre system.
Soldiers from 19th RMR (Mechanised) preparing to fire their RPG-7s during the 2017 Firepower Exercise
The other manufacturer is the Daudsons Armoury based in Peshawar. Daudsons do not manufacture RPG 7s though they do manufacture the RPG 7 sub calibre device. From the company’s website.
7th Rejimen Renjer DiRaja soldiers with their RPG-7 launcher as they walk in formation to the parade ground in February, 2017.
The RPG-7 Sub calibre device gives a near perfect simulation of the actual ammunition. It is a cost effective method for target practice and training of troops in loading/un-loading and firing of the system. It uses standard 9mm ammunition. The floating adjustable barrel ensures proper aiming at various ranges of the weapon
I have no idea what ammunition is used for the sub calibre device manufactured by PMTF but the Daudsons device is different from the ones manufactured by Bulgarian and Czech which uses the 7.62mm X 39 cartridges, the same type used on the AK47 rifles. A video on Youtube of a Czech made RPG 7 sub calibre device, below.
For this reason I am inclined to believe we are getting the RPG 7 sub calibre system from Pakistan. Hopefully we can get confirmation during DSA 2018 this April. Any how I hope the Army buy plenty of these devices so soldiers equipped with the RPG could ripple fire them as well during their training cycle.
Yes, it will be akward for them to remove the devices from the RPG barrel to fire the second or third ones unlike firing real rockets but it will be much, much cheaper. Hopefully the Army will also purchase sub calibre devices for its recently acquired LAW system.
Anyhow apart from tender to transport the RPG 7 sub calibre system, the Ministry also issued another MTO tender to transport S-band radars back to Malaysia for installation and commissioning. The radars are for the island bases located in the South China Sea. The procurement tender for these radars was issued and cancelled on Oct. 3, 2017. I guess the procurement went ahead via direct negotiations after the tender was issued and cancelled on the same day.
HT to DM
— Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (64)
thank god we got the training system for RPG 7 system. i was puzzled when see they adopted RPG 7 tactic but i did not know any training system until now(was there any training system like this for it before?). kudos for those.
Mr Marhalim, the S-band radars MTO did you get to read before cancel?any interesting thing in it?
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I don't have access to any of the MTO tenders, one need to have the proper MOF registration to be able to view the actual documents.
No they did not have any training devices for the RPG 7 before.
The S band radars for the island bases are mostly for navigation purposes I believe
zack - '' i was puzzled when see they adopted RPG 7 tactic''
What is so puzzling? We had a need for a section level shoulder fired weapon and Pakistan owed us cash and had a trade imbalance with us. Along the way we found that RPGs rounds from elsewhere are cheaper than the ones offered by POF so we ordered them from Romania.
Marhalim,
I've always wondered who supplied the present radars we have on our reefs/islands. My guess is they're probably just short range commercial ones but good enough to detect an intruding ship. In due time the chain of radars [Raytheon Canada] we have along the Sraits of Melaka will have to be replaced but that won't be from MINDEF's budget.
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I also have no idea which supplied the old radars and also new ones as well. It may well be Kelvin Hughes which could explain why they publish and cancel the tender for the new ones. As for the radars covering the Malacca Straits, those are relatively new, less than 10 years I believed. I think they were originally purchased through the Transport Ministry though now it is now under the purview of the MMEA which also manage all the radars in the east coast as well as Sabah and Sarawak now.
Outdated as an anti-armour weapon, its only use is really as an anti-emplacement or anti-personnel weapon.
Even side-aspect armour packages for Leo 2SG and 2RI should be able to defeat RPG-7s. Only a top attack or directly into the engine compartment from the rear would really disable the tank, and even then it is usually repairable within a matter of hours.
BTW has anyone seen the elusive RUAG RPG-7 rounds?
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Not me.
Chua,
Not really, it can still be used with a large measure of success against IFVs. In the event that there is a need for it to be used against heavy armour; there are various rounds available on the open market, including tandem ones. Also, even if the standard round is unable to penetrate a MBT frontally or on the flank; aimed at the turret it will take out stuff like optics or cause some level of damage. If we want to judge the RPG based on its inability to defeat the armour of current gen MBTs we can say the same of many ATGWs as well.
Marhalim,
They were ordered in 1994 by the Maritime Institute. The ops room is at Lumut next to the RMN base but they are not integrated with the radars MMEA has in other places.
...,
At Merdeka Day some troops were spotted with a large black round. Whether these was a wooden dummy rounds or the RUAG one is anyone's guess.
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I believe they are now integrated with the MMEA ones as the agency is running the ops room now. They are not integrated with the military, the last time I checked as they could not figured out who would pay for it
Marhalim,
On the Camcopters signed for with Petronas at LIMA 2015. Is MAF
Intelligence the only operator or is Camcopter also operated in ESSCOM as part of a private initiative project with CTRM; like Aludra and Scaneagle?
A few years ago the army's intel battalion had some Aludras.
I wonder if those are still operated.
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The Camcopters are operated by MI at Esscom similar to the Aludra and Scaneagles. Maintenance are done by the local agent
The RPG 7 is a very simple but effective system against tanks n armoured vehicled. But admittedly for tanks they need to be hit multiple times.
Thats why for armoured vehicles in Afghanistan they need to put either the bar armour or the net protection system that will detonate the round before it reaches its optimum distance to cut into the armour
@Azlan "Also, even if the standard round is unable to penetrate a MBT frontally or on the flank; aimed at the turret it will take out stuff like optics or cause some level of damage."
The former banking on pretty lucky hit - considering the size of an RPG warhead, optics, and optimum range - and the latter a pretty insignificant level.
PG-7VR might (might!) just barely penetrate the side or turret of Leo 2A4s, but the 2SGs and 2RIs have added armour on top of that, so that isn't a solution either.
@Azlan "If we want to judge the RPG based on its inability to defeat the armour of current gen MBTs we can say the same of many ATGWs as well."
We should, because there is a lack of anti-tank weapons that the RPG-lover crowd refuses to acknowledge, and even if many other ATGMs can't guarantee a destroyed tank either, at least they do a better job than RPG-7s, they might fare better against side armour.... and other armies usually have better ATGMs in the support/weapons company to deal with enemy tanks.
Not asking for miracles from the section weapons here, but pointing out that there is no viable option all the way until battalion level, and that only for those units with Metis-M, Baktar Shikan or Ingwe.
@ Chua,
" We should, because there is a lack of anti-tank weapons that the RPG-lover crowd refuses to acknowledge, and even if many other ATGMs can’t guarantee a destroyed tank either, at least they do a better job than RPG-7s, they might fare better against side armour "
So the RPG-7 is not up to your standards. So what is your suggestion for that issue? Any better ATGM systems that can be a section level weapon which is lightweight and have multiple reloads? Even singaporean single shot MATADOR LAW which is their section level weapon, is not designed to penetrate MBTs.
" and other armies usually have better ATGMs in the support/weapons company to deal with enemy tanks"
Our mechanized and motorized battalions have Metis-M, Baktar Shikan and Ingwe in their support companies. Are those not good enough?