SHAH ALAM: It appears that both KD Tunku Abdul Rahman and KD Tun Abdul Razak , the two Perdana class submarines – were equipped with new equipment during their major refit a few years back.
From the post on KD TAR refit:
By all accounts – a refit or overhaul – extends a submarine’s life by repairing its hull and modernising its combat capability. It involves examining, repairing and even replacing parts of the hull; replacing worn-out cabling and piping ; and replacing or upgrading major weapons, sensors and communication systems.
Work on Tunku Abdul Rahman started in 2016 and it was likely completed in 2019 while Tun Abdul Razak went into the yard in 2019 and it came out in 2021.
As RMN (as other navies) never announced whether it had fitted new equipment on both boats during the refit, we must rely on pictures published by RMN itself to spot the new things (though not on the first time). After seeing a number of photographs of both submarines I can surmised that they now have horizontal bumps on the rear of both sides of their conning towers.
I have no idea what it is. It is likely a sonar array of some sorts or even something more benign. Updated. It is an exhaust diffusers. The bumps had never been seen on both submarines prior to their refits. Anyone visiting the Eastern Fleet Command Open Day (today and tomorrow) at the Kota Kinabalu naval base can see the bumps on Tunku Abdul Rahman and other things displayed at the jetty (see picture below).
— Malaysian Defence
Being right at the top end of conning tower I am guessing it could be either a surface radar or a ASW search radar detector.
There are antennas for those which lowered and raised from the conning towers like the periscopes
No I have worked it out. They are exhaust diffusers that are also fitted on the Indians Scorpenes. Just Google them.
Apparently helps to diffuse the diesel fumes when the sub is recharging its batteries. Maybe the RMN has also got the snorkel hose that DCNS talked about some years ago. With the snorkel hose, you can stay deeper underwater and still recharge the batteries. Maybe they got this exhaust diffuser with the snorkel hose, maybe..
The snorkel is raised on the latest picture taken at the open day
Anyway, this is an improvement. Can’t complain about it. Now, they only need to raise the snorkel tube/hose when recharging. No need to have a smokey exhaust tube too..
Yes I Google and the hump only appeared from the third submarine….
When will they install AIP? Since anwar is buddy with Erdogan maybe we can ask for LMS batch II and AIP installation for a friendly price.
Throw in propeller diffuser installation as well since all new SSK (Turkish U214, Germany U212 and Singapore U218) use one
that exhaust diffuser it same with indian scorpene kalvari class.
Reference –
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ins-vagsheer-last-of-the-scorpene-submarines-under-project-75-launched-2903252
http://www.hisutton.com/Scorpene-Class-Submarine.html
It’s a French submarine, the Turkish people won’t do anything on it
Alex – ”since anwar is buddy with Erdogan”
Why do we keep hearing about this ”best buddy” shite? One doesn’t have to be ”best buddies”; merely to have the cash and a genuine desire to buy something. Also; at the small quantities we buy do you think that Erdogan would be willing to provide a ”friendly price”. All this talk about Anwar being supposedly ”best mates” with Erdogan has been repeated and overplayed. Erdogan is ”best buddies” with a lot of people.
Not only that but how can a Turk company provide an AIP to a French made submarine? Integration/certification comes into play…
Why need to have the turks do anything for the scorpenes?
What can malaysia do?
1. Piggyback Kalveri Batch 2 plan to get 1-2 more Scorpenes for RMN. Get india to finish them, or we could buy the complete modules and assemble them in Kota Kinabalu. Not much difference between undertaking complex overhaul and to assemble new modules on site.
2. With Turkey, concurrently get the STM500 submarine from them. Probably 3-6 of them.
3. Where is the money? There is planned for the LMS Batch 2. Instead of the LMS Batch 2, yes submarines for RMN, but who is going to do surface patrols? Thats what MMEA supposed to do.
Unrelated but it seems like the SG spent 450 mil sing dollars for each invincible class submarine..good deal? compared to our scorpenes?
Baseline in US dollars and minus other add ons Sg menhan dun wan disclose.
So $450 US million+ $X add ons
I cannot say whether its a good deal or not but it must be noted that SG2022 defence budget was SGD16.36 billion. Based on the defence budget, it is a good deal as such procurement is paid for annually. If it was ours, it will not as it would mean that annually the whole of the navy development budget is basically used to pay for one asset only (yes, I know it is spread out but that what is means). Just look at the LCS, almost all of the navy development budget annually for the last ten years were used for the project. The navy got new things within the last two years or so as it was not paying anything for LCS.
Good deal for whom? We need 5 years RMK budget to pay for our subs, they needed only yearly budget to pay for theirs. So what is a ‘good deal’ for them might be too expensive for us.
It simply has to do with our difference in defence budget proportions and the gapping strength of their currency. As I said before, when both country budgets are normalised to USD$ (as most defence procurements are based upon), they could easily afford 3x more stuff (or better stuff for the same money) than we do.
If we cannot plug the leakages we should at least strengthen our economy and RM towards on par with SGD level. Automatically we would get the better stuff as they do.
We must stop leakages if we want to strengthen the economy. If it continues it will drain our resources and this will not help our economy
My bad i only asking about their new sub’s capabilities and specifications compared to our subs and if we are to buy aip scorpenes..How aip scorpenes fares against invincibles class
no one knows really, apart from the silent service and they are not talking
Firdaus – “My bad i only asking about their new sub’s capabilities and specifications compared to our subs and if we are to buy aip scorpenes”
Given that the RSN’s subs were constructed many years later it’s obvious that they will contain various things a generation ahead or more advanced than the RMN’s boats.
On AIP it’s desirable and useful but it’s not written in stone that a sub isn’t effective without it or is interior to one with it. How one deploys its subs and operational conditions play a huge part.
Agree, to Singapore, the submarines are good deals because it significantly improves the RSN’s effectiveness across the region without affecting other acquisitions. For Malaysia, buying additional submarines now will defund purchase of new assets for the surface fleet for a few RMKs.
IMO personally, I think it is more realistic to expect our economy to double than it is to plug the leakages. There are just too many hands involved that any Government who wishes to stay in power will have to play this game and give the goods. Quite a many (supposedly powerful) political figures who tried to fight the system now got their comeuppance.
RSN is expanding and moderning fast. Invincible class submarines need to jointness work with the soon 6 upgraded Formidable friget,6 MRCV friget or destroyer, 8 lmvs in corvette configuration,2 JMMS lhd and new MPAs. All this by around 2030.
Quite a many (supposedly powerful) political figures who tried to fight the system now got their comeuppance.(joe)
What comeuppance Bro joe? The goblins and the gremlins are being rewarded. One of them is that short loudmouth masquerading as the Deputy Finance Minister 1! Him assisting PM10? Farcical at best mate!
Taib – “Farcical at best mate”
You expected differently? It’s politics. We’re talking about the real world here where elected reresebtatives will do all they can and have to in order to stay in office. As for Anwar he has his sycophants, partners, allies and backers to please. He also has his enemies to keep at bay
Joe “If we cannot plug the leakages we should at least strengthen our economy””
Unfortunately at our current GDP per capita level it’s impossible to grow the economy further without plugging the leaks.
“and RM towards on par with SGD level”
SG has a very disciplined fiscal policy, low taxes for mega corporation but high ‘indirect’ taxes leverage on the population who itself enjoyed very low level of public services, utilities & subsidies. Thus despite her taxes heaven credentials it has more taxes per GDP collection then us,
joe “It simply has to do with our difference in defence budget proportions and the gapping strength of their currency. As I said before, when both country budgets are normalised to USD$ (as most defence procurements are based upon), they could easily afford 3x more stuff (or better stuff for the same money) than we do. ”
If you’re gunning for the highest number of contradictions you can fit in one paragraph, you can safely claim the trophy.
Firstly the “difference in defence budget proportions” has everything to do with what the respective governments choose to allocate to defence as a proportion of the government budget. Malaysia’s and Singapore’s government budgets are not far apart when expressed in USD or any common currency- MYR332 billion and SGD109 billion. The defence budgets are MYR16 billion and SGD16 billion. So obviously Malaysia has allocated a much smaller “proportion” or fraction of the government budget to defence- roughly 1/3 of Singapore’s proportion. All figures from 2022.
We would have to allocate about MYR50 billion to defence to approach the “proportion” that Singapore allocates to defence. What proportion the Malaysia and Singapore governments can afford to allocate to defence has to do with many things but has nothing to do with the “gapping strength of their currency.”
As you have been told many times before over the years, your understanding of currencies and finance is fundamentally wrong.