SHAH ALAM: Defence Minister DS Khaled Nordin in late January announced that RMAF Sukhoi Su-30MKM Flanker fleet will be in service for another ten years or 2035. He made the statement after visiting Gong Kedak airbase where No 12 Skuadron operates the Flankers.
Although he did not say anything on the No 18 Skuadron which operates the F/A-18 Hornets, we know from previous reports and RMAF’s own CAP 55 plan, the recapitalization of the MRCA fleet will only take place between 2030 and 2035. The exact timing remained hazy as always it is up to the government of the day to pony up the funds needed for the procurement. I was told that the MRCA requirements were put in the RMK11 and RMK12 wish list as well though it was never funded.
Now, there is talk that the funding for the MRCA Fifth Generation (MRCA 5G) will be fleshed out in the RMK13 – 2026 to 2030 – and if the contract was signed during the period, deliveries could start by RMK14. Just in time for the retirements of the Flanker and Hornets as planned. Do note that a general election must be held by the latest in early 2028 though some are saying it will be held late this year. Any political change will reset the timing of any programme especially one as large as a fighter procurement. The RMK13 funding is expected to be tabled in Parliament either in September or October.
The Requirements?
Numbers for the MRCA 5G remained hazy as RMAF Cap 55 plan envisaged only a two-fighter fleet. The current plan plan is for a 36-strong FLIT/LCA fleet and 18 MRCA. Numbers could change though.
As for the technical requirements, I was told that the MRCA being sought must be a fifth-generation platform, hence the title of the post MRCA 5G. The other requirements – I am assuming based on the previous MRCA requirements – will be twin engines – and that it is an in-service platform and not a prototype. That said this not a prototype thing while a requirement has never been set in stone.
The chosen MRCA 5G will be the one that meets the main requirements but also the minor details of course. We know from the previous MRCA project the main contenders were twin engine fighters – the Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.
The only single engine aircraft offered was the Saab Gripen and despite a strong campaign, it was never in the mix. Russia offered the Mikoyan MiG-35, a modernised version of the Fulcrum with twin-engines and an AESA radar. It was dropped – after the first round of in-country technical briefing – as it was a prototype though Mikoyan insisted it was not.
The Current Contenders.
The three in service stealth fighters – namely the Lockheed Martin F-35; Shenyang J-35 and the Sukhoi SU-57 – will be in the starting line-up. In fact, if without the current economic sanctions against Russia, the Felon might already be half-way there already. I will not bore you with their technical details as one could easily find them on the Internet. It is interesting to note that both the Felon and Lightning II have been in combat in recent months. The F-35 has been exported mostly to NATO countries though neighbouring Singapore is also getting them. The Felon only known export customer is Algeria which will take delivery of the first six aircraft next year. The Chinese J-35 is the dark horse. That said it is unclear whether China will allow it to be exported though.
Others
Korean Aerospace Industries KF-21 Boramae is expected to be operational by next year. The development phase is set to conclude by June 2026, with the first batch of aircraft being deployed to the South Korean Air Force that year. For the South Korean perspective, the MRCA 5G should start in 2027 when their aircraft is no longer a prototype and ready for deliveries.
As for the Turkish Aerospace Industries fifth generation fighter – KAAN or TFX – the first flight of the first prototype only on February 21 2024. The prototype is only expected to be delivered to the Turkish Air Force in 2028 for operational testing. It is likely the first TFX to be declared in operational service in 2030 at the earliest. Based on the timeline, our constant dithering in funding may well give Turkiye the chance to enter the competition. If the MRCA 5G competition goes beyond 2030, of course.
Conclusion
Some people might read this story and retort aish, this is just to hype up Lima 25 and the next edition lah. They could be right, of course. That said I was told that several companies are preparing to bring their MRCA 5G to Malaysia this May for LIMA 25. Nothing has been confirmed yet but as May gets nearer one will find out if this is a a hype or not. The talk about the MRCA 5G is the reason you read a story or two dismissing the plan buy the Kuwaiti Hornets. These stories said why waste money on the Kuwaiti Hornets when you plan to fly them for another ten years.
Aero India started with the Su-57 on offer to India.
Aero India ends with the F-35 on ‘offer’ to India.
None of this is exactly good news. But what a sobering, revelatory week.
[
:Gagandeep Singh] pic.twitter.com/vGhrsFk0yk
— Livefist (@livefist) February 14, 2025
Perhaps, like India, the current US administration will offer us the F-35s instead of the Kuwaiti Hornets. (see the Tweet above)
— Malaysian Defence
If you like this post, buy me an espresso. Paypal Payment
My comment on this matter
1. It is probably to hype up LIMA 2025. For RMK13 2026-2030, TUDM current plans will eat up most of the available budget anyway (which is around USD1.6 bil if we refer to the previous RMKs). IMO things TUDM need/want to fund in RMK13 2026-2030 :
– 18x FA-50 batch 2 (USD1 bil)
– 4x ATR-72MPA batch 2 (USD0.35 bil)
– MERAD
– additional ground-based radar replacements
2. Original CAP55 plans envisions the TUDM having :
– 2x 5G MRCA Squadrons
– 2x LCA Squadrons
– 1x FLIT/LIFT Squadron
So the 5G MRCA requirement is probably at least 24 units (not 18) for 2 Squadrons.
https://www.malaysiandefence.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Cap55F.jpg
3. Hornets transfer IMO would be a done deal even if we are going to use them for just 10 years. The cost of transfer would be very minimal, if not almost for free. Any 5G MRCA induction would be 2031 at the earliest, and won’t be fully operational with 2 squadrons worth until past 2035. So those additional Hornets would be very valuable asset to TUDM.
4. Personally i would prefer the KF-21, as the current world situation means that we and south korea are now in the same boat (cannot trust USA anymore to come to our rescue). There are also talks recently of Saudi Arabia going for the KF-21. So in all i would put the KF-21 as our best bet for our 5G MRCA requirement.
5. IMO the best thing we can do within RMK13 2026-2030 is to sign the contract for FA-50 Batch 2 together with the MOU for 24 KF-21 to be delivered in RMK14 2031-2035 (12 units) and RMK15 2036-2040 (12 units).
lockheed has been jangling the toys in front of tudm for a while so i am not terkejut if its shortlisted. f-35 involved in exes is not coincidence, same tactic boeing did to sell the f18.
I’m a long time reader of this website and really enjoyed the content but it’s my first time posting a comment because this one is an interesting topic.
I personally believe that we will end up keeping our 4.5++ gen fighters for quite longer than expected especially with current uncertainty in the world and especially SCS region because even one extra operational bird in the sky is a huge plus in hard times.
Just like the US that tho they have F22s and F35s they still have their 4th gen+ plus fighters like F18s and especially F16s around due to their versatility and the fact is any modern 4.5++ gen fighter is as capable as a 5th gen fighter but with much lower per-hour cost of operation minus the stealth capabilities of course.
I believe if we officially declare 2 squadron of 5th gen fighters operational somewhere in 2035, we will retire the hawks instead and we will keep our 4th gen fighters for a much longer time and might put some of them in “reserve” mode to cut some cost but won’t be retied especially if the geopolitical situation continues this current trajectory which, unfortunately it seems to be that way.
Ps: I have a strange feeling that with some difficulties that we faced maintaining our Russian fleet especially with the MIGs, I don’t think our next strategic 5th gen fighter purchase is gonna be Russian to avoid any potential supply chain disruption.
The practical question, would ww be willing to spend USD200 mil per aircraft? Base on tbe current govt trend of doing things, it neans more subsidy cuts, increasw payment for public services and reduced public services? We Malaysian would have to accept life style changes if we pursue this.But at the same time we still need an airforce with sufficient numbers and deterrent capabilities to protect our ever contested sovereignty, and not just from China.We may have to adopt a hi-lo mix strategy to stretch our minimal budget and may have to consider cheaper alteenatives nation for war equipment supply.
One have to think whether the Mindef people allowed the leasing deal to go through to save their more important projects…
@Hulubalang
“Personally i would prefer the KF-21”
Me too as it seems the most practical choice (lower purchasing and operating costs than Flanker or similar size jets, in time and US might not give us F35 like with Thailand).
@Cyber
“I don’t think our next strategic 5th gen fighter purchase is gonna be Russian”
Yup but this is Malaysia the boleh land, anything can happen…
@Hulubalang
“Saudi Arabia going for the KF-21”
There is a lot of news about Saudi Arabia, some say they want Tempest GCAP 6th gen, some say they also want KAAN. Though i think they just want to get everything that they can get their hands on
RMAF can go for KF-21 but wait until its fully 5gen standard.
The likelihood of signing at the beginning of rmk13 is extremely unlikely. We here like to hype up things for years before buying anything. If we even buy anything at all.
Most likely the signing would be held at the end of Rmk13, with delivery at the beginning of rmk15. Which mean the gomen doesn’t really need to pay anything for the next 2 rmk other than just promises. If the delivery schedule is spread over 10 years then we would end up using the Kuwaiti hornet for 20 years up until 2045.
So In general nothing really unusual about the timelines.
@ kamal a
” would ww be willing to spend USD200 mil per aircraft? ”
KF-21 flyaway cost is put at around US80mil (as offered to Thailand). Even at those prices, we probably need like 10 years of TUDM CAPEX budget to buy 24 units.
” We may have to adopt a hi-lo mix strategy ”
We already adopting it.
Hi = 5G MRCA
Lo = FA-50
Lets see if we can actually afford to buy the F-35
Normal CAPEX allocation for TUDM in each of the 5 year rancangan malaysia = around USD1.6 billion.
Example cost of F-35, this is for 32x F-35A for Romania
https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/romania-f-35-aircraft
It cost USD7.2 billion.
With TUDM current CAPEX allocation, we will need nearly 25 years worth of total TUDM CAPEX to afford to buy the same number of F-35 as Romania. So which budget to cut if we really want this? Education? Medical? Subsidies?
I would say “dengar boleh percaya jangan”
1. Politicians are not good at keeping their plan. Policy is changed depend on who is sitting on driver seat.
2. The gov is struggling to meet 36 units of FA-50. No fund will available in 2030.
3. RMAF is not ready to operate 5th gen fighters. Operating 5th gen is about networked environment not platform.
4. 5th gen fighter is costly in operating and maintaining which need significant increment in annual military budget.
5. Other branches and MMEA are under equipt that need attention.
6. Many homework should be done first such as LCS, OPV, SPH, used hornet etc.
In short, it is all about LIMA. This is just old gimmick because LIMA has less attractive and the EO has run of option to make LIMA great again.
PS…
The onky accepted naration is RMAF will gradually run out of fighter in 2035. Procurement new fighter is needed in 5 years before. 2030 is a big question if the money is available and we can get any of existing 5th gen today due to common operatability or political reason.
I must say 4.5th fighter is more logic in 2030 and easier to be planned.
@ Romeo
Buying 4.5gen fighter in 2025 is only for those who has too much money to spend.
Most of 4.5gen fighter, like Rafale and Typhoon, are as expensive as F-35 anyway. Indonesian Air Force 42x Rafale buy for example is put at USD8.1 billion.
As a country that is perpetually no money for defence, wasting billions to buy 4.5gen fighters in 2025 is a non starter. Buying 4.5gen fighter now would mean only getting them near to 2030 at best, and will mean having to be stuck with them to 2050 at least (and that means no 5G MRCA till then!). That would be a disaster for TUDM fighter capability for decades to come. The decision for TUDM to get intrim fighter in the shape of used Kuwaiti Hornets is the best one for our current situation.
@Romeo
“I must say 4.5th fighter is more logic in 2030 and easier to be planned.”
Agree…IMO better to procure a squadron of the non stealth KF21 first. And the stealth KF21 later
@hulubalang cannot compare to romania at all, they start from essentially zero, mig21 rustbucket. no proper infra no networked system no nothing. tudm more comparable to switzerland they can reuse readapt many things. interpolate you get 3.2 bil for 20, plus all the package.
I think you may have forgotten one sticking point with the F 35……it’s single engined. The RMAF has always preferred twin engines due to something named the SCS.
I mentioned in the story, whether it will be ignored is beyond me. They ignored the Gripen in the previous MRCA though.
We are not buying a 5th gen tomorrow.
Assuming the growth rates of 5% annually.our economy would be 160% larger in 10 years time where delivery theoretically would begin and 260% larger in 20 years where the final jet enter the inventory.
Also a jet is a jet. It would be expensive regardless what we pick as the difference on cost between one jet to another jet is akin to the different between a lambo and Ferrari not a lambo with a geely or cheery. In general the cost difference is negligible in the grand scheme of things.
@ serial yapper
Switzerland contract for 36x F-35A signed in 2022 costs USD6.25 billion.
One of the latest contact signed for the F-35, is for Czechia for 24x F-35A in 29 January 2024. How much? USD6.5 billion.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/czech-republic-signs-65b-deal-with-us-to-purchase-24-f-35-jets/3122340
IMO TUDM will need to spend no less than USD5 billion to get its F-35. Then we need to see if we are truly allowed to buy those F-35. Currently no country other than Singapore is allowed to get the F-35 in south east asia. Both Indonesia and Thailand officially requested for F-35 and was rebuffed.
@ darthzaft
You forgot about inflation.
Correct me if i am wrong, almost 90% of our DE is financed through debt and as far as i know we had bever pare down our debt, when it falls due we seems to refinance it.Currently debt at 60% GDP but if you include the so called lease liability it will be more yjan 80%GDP. There will come a time either we cut our DE , cut subsidy or increase taxes coz we should not allow debt to blow to 100% GDP or else our budget for debt servicing will be higher tgan the current 17% of budger.Base on this, i am very pessimistic we can afford F35 in the next 200 years or even Rafale or Typhoon (nit more than 12)
@ kamal a
We have never bought any weapons direct with debts.
All our defence DE are taken from the government coffers. Yes the government have sold bonds in general, but AFAIK we have never bought any weapons with loans.
But we have done partial barters, especially with palm oil. Even our FA-50 is partially paid for with palm oil. If partial barter with palm oil needs to be taken into account, probably the KF-21 will be among the strongest option.
5G fighter eh? Seriously? Berapa boleh beli dan boleh upkeep ke? All l can say is if Northrop still makes the F-5E it would still sell it!
Agreed, it just hype for LIMA 2025 nothing more (it happens with almost every L.I.M.A don’t you guys get it otherwise manufacturer will not come to show off their hardware), with current defense budget forget about it and F-35 e kidding me, we’re not Israel friendly enough to be approved sales by trump
Despite some had pooh pooh the idea of going 5th Gen, its what I said all along that in view the Rafale deal was cancelled until now it makes less sense to go with 4.5Gen legacy fighters coz were going to keep them for at least 20-30 years so whatever we buy must keep to the latest trend & tech.
But I doubt the numbers tho, 18 is quite a lot seeing as SG will only be getting up to 20 F35s and their military has much more money to spend than us. I will make another prediction, that we will at most be getting is 12x 5th Gen and in 2 batches split into 2 RMK payments (RMK14 & 15).
Timeline is also pretty much what I said. Even if we make a choice in 2030, looking at FA50 timeframe of 3 years production leadtime on a hot line, were likely to get the 1st planes sometime post-2035 with a view of full operation in 2040. Thats the dateline for when we can retire our legacy planes. Hence while we prolly need to take out the MKMs by 2035 to avoid a costly reengine SLEP, this would mean we need to keep Hornets running until 2040 and thats why the Kuwaiti Hornets are essential need to boost & keep our current ones still fully operational post 2035 final OEM support.
With regards the planes, is twin engine even a sacred spec, since F35 is clearly single engine? Maybe it only applies to non-US planes as F35 is the only USA option.
Realistically it’s going to boil down to the KAI or TAI. The
F-35 is single engine while buying Chinese or Russian is just not going to happen. Technically the KAI is not 5 gen, so the only remaining option is the Khan. The timeline of 2030 to 2035 will be perfect for the Khan. So the LCAs are going to be Korean, the MRCA is going to be Turkish.
Rather than focusing on MRCA, is there any news on AWACS?
Without them, we are just flying blind in congested surrounding. The last I heard is that we almost on the verge of obtaining 3 nos of E-2D Hawkeye back in early 2000s but again we pussy foot on the actual go ahead.
I’m rooting for Kaan. Other than Anwar and Erdogan being buddies and that they offered partnership in Kaan programe, there’s also the fact that out of the 2 potential 5th gen fighters that are offered to us (fat chance we’re getting felon), Kaan is one tailored primarily as an air superiority aircraft with A2G being secondary, something we already missed with the retirement of Mig-29N and will sorely leave a huge gap once Su-30 is pulled out from active duty
KF-21 in its current iteration is focused more as a medium size MRCA focusing on A2G as RoKAF go to fast jet is F-15K. The turk though, want something to replace their venerable F-4 terminator and TuAF current fleet (which is mostly made of F-16s) wouldve struggled to do interception role which is why they’re looking at EF2000 as stopgap until Kaan fully mature
@Hulubalang
“We have never bought any weapons direct with debts”
It is just a policy that seen on accounting report and sound good to the tax payer ears. Reality is there is no different whether you build a tower with your own money and buy a car with debt or the other way around. You must create debt in the same amount in order to have both.
“wasting billions to buy 4.5gen fighters in 2025″
Wasting? Just because it is not 5th gen?
A wasting is if you buy somethinflg but you can not use it to its full capability. You buy a ferrari just to make her as a garage queen because you can not afford to pay the operating and maintenance cost.
@joe
” it makes less sense to go with 4.5Gen legacy fighters coz were going to keep them for at least 20-30 years so whatever we buy must keep to the latest trend & tech.”
4.5th is not a legacy fighter. It will fly for a long long time even the F16 will still fly for 2045, otoh The US will retired their F22 whose capability beyond F35.
Even if we can get 5th fighter but we can not exploit its full capability becauae we dont have support system such as netwoked environment it will 5th gen fighter in name only
@Alex
“Realistically it’s going to boil down to the KAI or TAI.”
Realistically it is going to boil down to none.
5th gen fighter is still far away. Many homework must be done first. The news is just a gimmick for the sake of LIMA.
RMAF are in need of AEW capability but to say tha getting E-2D would’ve solve their problem is like saying that the existing beechcraft plane is enough for MPA role, which is not the case.
E-2D is one tier above helicopter AEW and is probably enough for a city state or a naval group but much else
if wanna go used then used erieye would be a good option. Both saudis and greece is looking to replace their legacy erieye with globaleye so maybe can play islamic brotherhood card on saudis to get these planes for cheap. Or get a brand new Erieye-ER radar and mount it on ATR-72 as malaysia have plenty of experience with ATR-72
Again Anwar and Erdogan being buddies. Being buddies does not mean much unless they offer us 50% discount or not water down version for exports.
Otherwise even G2G, it purely business transaction between two countries
If we want buddy, give and take japan and the hard to shallow USA, they sponsored 3 MSA, radar and coast guard cutter even.
The most sensible procurement for 5th gen MRCA would be countries that are willing to barter trade fighter jets for palm oil and its derivatives. So far, only Russia and South Korea have accepted barter trade for defense equipment, so Su-57 and KF-21 are naturally top contenders.
Kaan is a HUGE fighter jet using 2x F-16 engines. With small production volumes it will probably be a very expensive aircraft to buy and operate.
https://pictr.com/images/2023/08/31/EAOSnq.jpg
AWACS
My personal opinion is that we need to have this 1st before inducting 5G MRCA. I am for the ERIEYE-ER mounted on the Global 6000 aircraft (basically globaleye-lite, without the complex integration of belly radars and such, so it will be cheaper). Ideally 4 units, 2 units in RMK13, 2 more in RMK14.
Adding to that is a dedicated EW/EA aircraft also based on the Global 6000, HAVASOJ IMO is ideal.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHZ74MlagAAvuQj.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GCvYsd3bAAA54Mp.jpg
We were very close to getting those Hawk back in D variant. It the what we can afford but then again it did not proceed. Sentry or wedgetail are out of our affordable range
Notice how the brochure Page 10 show the coverage area between C & D. It was taken out of earlier technical study by airforce team. It does not take a genius to know where that country is
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/10802176/e-2d-advanced-hawkeye-information-booklet-northrop-grumman-
“RMAF are in need of AEW capability but to say that getting E-2D would’ve solve their problem is like saying that the existing beechcraft plane is enough for MPA role, which is not the case”
if that the case why would taiwan even japan and france rather get additional hawk then getting sentry or wedgetails? Of course, for argument sake, french have NATO and its for their aircraft carrier but japan and taiwan? Both are able to afford a more expensive AWACS if they wanted to.
Same as saying why we choose AT72 instead of P8 for MPA. If it does the job well, it good enough
A Ferarri is also 4 wheel and bring you from Point A to Point B albeit in style and prestige
what homework lmao. just because other branch of service havent got their toys doesnt means the AF have to sacrifice their needs
Turkiye
We are buddies yes for sure, but there are better stuffs for TLDM that we can acquire from Turkiye, rather than the KAAN. KAAN is at best just a technological demonstrator, and its huge size will mean big operating costs. Can we afford to regularly fly them?
IMO things we could get from Turkiye for TUDM
– Bayraktar TB3 MALE UAV
– Bayraktar Kızılelma UCAV
– Aselsan HAVASOJ EW/EA stand-off jammer
– Aselsan Tubitak Sage HGK/KGK/LGK smart bombs
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJEqRpzWsAAgr9f.jpg
– Aselsan miniature bomb
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJEqkmWXYAAUEjE.jpg
– roketsan SOM long range cruise missile
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6njpcfbkAAUPpu.jpg
@syam
We only did commodities exchange with Russian and korean.both countries which we have a trade deficit with, We however never did commodities exchange with turkeye.
@hulubalang “4.5th is not a legacy fighter. It will fly for a long long time even the F16 will still fly for 2045, otoh The US will retired their F22 whose capability beyond F35.”
It is, with delivery likely starting by 2035 and full delivery by 2045. A 4.5gen or a minus 5th gen by then is obsolete.
Also f22 avionics are not beyond f35. The reasons they wanted to retired the f22 is because the cost of upgrade per jet nor to reestablish the assembly line cost almost as much as building a brand new jet. If anything f22 is a cautionary tales against buying limited edition jet compared to a mass produced one.
>japan
they got them for their naval use. Japan have their own version of E-3
As for taiwan, I literally describe what is the use case for.
ATR72 is arguably enough for MPA role but beechcraft certainly wasn’t. also nobody brought up P8 into the discussion
Japan e2c/d are flown by their air force instead of navy. Nor was it used for naval aviation since they don’t have that branch. Not sure what the point of discussion was
But what I heard from their attache was due to numerous islands, having multiple E3 is expensive to cover all aspect. E2 fulfill their niche requirements for coverage gap, cheaper operation cost and smaller airports. The recent refueling probe a great help longer endurance hours. Their come with a loo for crew comfort
Their E2 is central common node but they wont or don’t dwell much on their specific usage or flown frequency
I guess it the same with Taiwan. Malaysia is essentially the same situation a nation divided by the SCS. Good enough for operation need, not fancy need
The point of argument sake. By not using beechcraft for mpa and not atr72 or our new msa.
As for the AWAC
IMHO, erieyes like gripen is great and all but Sweden ain’t exactly in any list of countries we had/wanted to buy weapons from.
@ darthzaft
” Sweden ain’t exactly in any list of countries we had/wanted to buy weapons from ”
Hmmm where do i start??
– NLAW ATGM
– Carl Gustaf
– MAPAM mortar rounds
– ARTHUR artillery radars
– Volvo C303 trucks (70s,80s)
– Scania Trucks
– Volvo armoured wreckers (KEMBALIK)
– TLDM CB90 Combat boats
– TLDM Handalan class FAC (Spica-M)
– TLDM Bofors 40mm and 57mm guns
– TUDM Su-30MKM MAWS-300 LWS-310
and many2 more…
Hulubalang,
Thanks for pointing out that KAAN is larger than the F-15E and with F-16 engines.
@Romeo
About the viability of 4.5 gen fighters 20-30 years into the future, Hulu, Zaft & I in agreement
https://www.malaysiandefence.com/mrca-fifth-generation-for-rmk13/#comment-940556
“4.5th is not a legacy fighter.”
Its based upon legacy fighter chassis, F15, F16, SU30 were Cold War era designs today with upgraded electronics. Rafale & EF2000 does not have LO capabilities of 5th Gen. Even on a platform basis a 5th Gen will have clear technical advantage over 4.5 Gen which is why I see TUDM going straight for it.
“we can not exploit its full capability becauae we dont have support system”
We dont have full support systems for a lot of things. Never did stopped us from buying and utilising them to the best we can and we had been adding support thru the years so its not like 5th Gen plane is the end all. Awacs/AEW is on the plate next.
“make her as a garage queen because you can not afford to pay”
This is why we have a hi-lo mix so that we dont have to run our Ferrari on daily basis. We have a P2 (LCA) to do that and the Ferrari can come out when only needed.
About the planes, here is my 2sen; SU57 no way unless we want CAATSA and Trump is willing to do that, K21 & KAAN could be viable if timeline meets but seriously only as a user its utter stupidity to get involved and spend money for development – Indo has learnt their lesson, Tempest & JFX is the outlier and likely wont be in time (maybe), F35 is still the most mature and my preferred bcoz of the support & nos of users but will USA give us to buy is the question.
@hulubalang
Not exactly expensive stuff ain’t it?
And some of it are by association of Saab with BAE.
@joe
I would say that both TFX and KFX are build because both countries don’t need cutting edge item as their main security concerns is technologically incompetent. bringing those 2 out with a technologically competent challenger then it’s akin to bringing a knives to a tank fight.
Some people bringing up the question is the US gonna authorize the F35 purchase and imo the answer is most likely yes!
I believe that our recent “approach” towards the su57E is actually a political tactic to kinda put US under pressure to loosen the grip and sell the f35 or otherwise we will go for the Russian made birds. With our history of purchasing many weaponry from them and the fact that they actually have never rejected any of our requests to buy weapons from them (afaik) I think there’s probably no issues for us getting the green light from the congress.
yes greece is wholly incompetent, technologically backward military
If anything, greece is bit ahead of Turkey in term of equipment sophistication
Also @zaft can you at least get your fact straight? You keep backpedalling and trying to move the goalpost here
It is possible if the purchase of 18 F-35A divided between 3 RMK. The estimated cost of one unit would be at US80mil without ammunitions & support of course. Roughly around RM240mil per piece. For 10 units roughly around RM2.4B.
We paid RM11B on 5 mediocre LCS remember? We can afford it but not in the way we done things before. It must be a prudent & straightforward process like the LMSB2. No hanky panky.
“imo the answer is most likely yes!”
What makes you so sure when closer allies like Thai got rebuffed, and even Indo was rejected and instead pushed them to get F15EX even after they also did the poker holdout method of trying to get SU35 prior to that? Just bcoz we ‘threaten’ to get SU57? They will sooner throw CAATSA at us thereby killing our economy to force us into compliance before we make them shake in their boots!
Dont hope Trump 2.0 will give in, they will drive a hard bargain where we will lose.
@dundun
Greece is in NATO if one doesn’t realized.
The likelihood of turkeye going into a hot war with Greece is zero to none. As of now most of turkeye military action is aims at non state actors.
That is the biggest issue with F-35s not much money for the local agent.
“straightforward process like the LMSB2. No hanky panky.”
LMS2 doesnt cost RM 11bil, and even the high cost of LCS can be stomach with the excuse of local building will give jobs & improve economy, etc. RM 10bil for F35 is all for the Trump nothing much will go back to us. This is whats unpalatable to the beancounters. Unless we become official LM regional service hub for their planes: F35 (MY & SG), F16 (Indo & SG), Hercs (many)
Joe “What makes you so sure when closer allies like Thai got rebuffed”
Historically particularly during the cold war yes. But currently with the amount of Chinese weaponry entering the Thai inventory and their general disinterest In SCS or *rules based world order. Hard to say they are a stronger allies/partner/whatever then us.
True to Kissinger words. there’s no such things as permanent friends or enemies, only interest. As for now,us, US and most state in the 1st island chain share a common interests.
@ qamarul
” For 10 units roughly around RM2.4B ”
If you can get F-35 for that price, I want to buy 40 of them at those prices.
This is the price for Greece – 20 units of F-35A for USD3.5 billion (RM15.5 billion)
https://apnews.com/article/greece-defense-turkey-fighters-f35-military-201f3f178d9466814302b1c33651ce97
@hulubalang that purchase of 40 F35A also include some “gifts” of unused military equipment (loitering munitions) in which 2/3 of it will be funded by the US. The extra deal also includes an undisclosed type of drones. All packed together in one big purchase.
Thai is also diversifying their equipment supplier, the only one that wiling to jump to the tune of US is Philippines. Almost to the point of US ask jump, they will ask how high especially matters related to SCS.
US is also courting Vietnam especially even offering F16, P8 and other equipments of their origin. While Vietnam is not too confrontative with China as compared to Philippines