SHAH ALAM: More Stuff for PDRM. As mentioned in the earlier 2019 budget post, almost no details are revealed about the procurement plans for the the military, MMEA and other agencies. The budget document for the police however reveal somewhat more of its procurement plans though it remain sparse compared to other agencies in the region.
Anyhow for 2019 Development Expenditure, the police is getting RM1.76 billion, a huge spike compared to the same figure of RM480.6 million in 2018.
It must be noted from the RM1.76 billion some RM923 million are meant for a slew of built, lease and transfer projects though the document is silent on the location, numbers or types involved which meant some RM1 billion are left for other projects.
An artist drawing of the new Subang police air base.
Some RM400 million of this are reserved for the refurbishment and upgrade of various police offices, barracks, quarters and other facilities leaving some RM600 million or so for assets procurement.
One the patrol/landing craft operated by marine police.
From this, RM12 million is allocated for the purchase motorboats, radios (RM88 million), firearms and ammunition (RM104.5 milion); vehicles (RM84.9 million); aircraft (RM86.8 million); technical support (RM66 million) and IT system (RM136 million). Apart from the IT system, the allocation for the rest are big spikes compared to 2018 figures.
Police personnel deployed to ESSCOM being inspected by then Markas Angkatan Bersama Commander Lt Jen Datuk Fadzil Mokhtar in early October, 2016. Markas ATB photo.
It is interesting to note that the police is only getting RM12 million for new motorboats which likely means the marine police will only operate vessels for in shore patrols only. With MMEA transferred to the Home Ministry one has to wonder that the marine police role will return to the one it had prior to the Lahad Datu incursion.
Humdinga amphibious vehicle (top) and Sealegs RIB on display at the 2016 Police Day ceremony. PDRM picture
The budget for firearms and ammo for 2019 is around RM39 million more than last year’s one so we can assume that more rifles are being bought mostly for the PGA and UTK units. New guns also meant more ammo are needed to gain competency or simply familiarity on them, hence the need for a bigger budget.
The Colt AR ordered for the police, the nearest one is the APC with UGL, middle is the ACC-M and the last one is the CM901.
As Malaysian Defence has reported previously that police Air Wing is getting more AW139, the RM86. 8 million allocation for aircraft in 2019, RM24 million more than 2018 seemed appropriate.
PDRM AW139 9M-PMB on display at LIMA 17
That said as it was originally claimed that the new helicopters will be leased to the police, the figure seemed to suggest that this was no longer the case. This is something that need to be confirmed, of course.
Deftech EOD and GSO vehicles.
The police remained the biggest agency in the Home Ministry with RM8.86 billion allocated for operational expenditure and 142,192 personnel on its payroll.
— Malaysian Defence
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Makes more sense now as dealing with terrorism (domestic or foreign) should be more of police’s area of expertise that not necessarily require cannons or anti armour weapons.
Marhalim – 400 million, not 400.
More helicopters that was bought with dubious reasons (SAR? A police mission? With VIP leather interior?) is something we can do without.
Savings can be had if overlapping missions with other agencies can be eliminated.
Overall i agree we need to beef up the police to enhance security but we need to set up an independent police monitoring comission to be a check and balance for the police force.
What about Bomba and Civil Defence? Is it under the home ministry too?
Reply
Bomba remains with Housing Ministry. I have to check where civil defence
I agree. Enough vip taxi jobs. It seems RMAF ,MMEA , police are nothing but vip rides. If really thats what they are then admit it. Close all the “for merdeka only” fast jets squadrons and just be a vip grab service. Be the next RNZAF.
Also Marhalim what should be the right sized navy for RMN? 50 hull or 30 hulls. Maybe time to decom all the FACs and transfer manpower to LCS. If UK can hv only 6 + 13 destroyers and frigates yet operate worldwide , do we need more than 6 + 6 LCS and NGOPV?
Off topic
Any malaysians interested? Better pay than joining ISIS in Syria LoL!
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/23622/Indians__Bangladeshis__Kenyans_Can_Join_UK_Armed_Forces#.W-IoYGnmg0N
The Mkm the Migs may not be the best operational jets around but sure aren’t for merdeka flypast or Lima flypast only usage. For 20 years it had play a deterrent role to some of our bigger neighbours though one could argue the cost may not be as efficient.
@…
Additional recruitment of 1,350 pax per year only. Expect the Brits to recruit a lot of their traditional Gurkhas, Fijis, S.Africans or Indians.
@Shahrudin
The UK’s global reach is also because it spends a lot on many overseas bases – nearest one is next door actually, fuel depot and three piers in Sembawang, Singapore. Not to mention Bahrain and Diego Garcia.
Funny you should bring up the RNZ Armed Forces. Do you know what their GDP is? US$ 206 billion… 2/3rds of ours. Their defence budget is US$ 1.7 billion, or 0.8% of GDP. (Compare to our GDP of US$ 314 billion and 1.2% military budget. Difference is 2.25x.)
From this they generate:
-an Army of 1 infantry brigade comprising 1 mechanised infantry battalion with 100 8×8 NZLAV IFVs, 2 foot infantry battalions and 1 artillery battalion
-a Navy of 2 Anzac-class frigates, 1 MRSS, 2 helicopter-capable OPVs, 4 patrol boats and 8 helicopters
-an Air Force of 6 P-3 MPA (soon to be 4 P-8 MPA), 5 C-130s, 4 B200s, 13 helicopters, and 11 trainers.
Obviously there are some differences e.g. we have 6x the population and our soldiers start at approx US$ 400 while theirs start at US$ 2,700.
But in temrs of major combat assets, my point is – if you multiply the NZ Armed Forces by 2.25x, that might be close to what we can sustainably achieve.
-Army of 2-3 mech infantry, 4-5 foot infantry and 2-3 artillery battalions
-Navy of 4-5 frigates, 2-3 MRSS, 13-14 patrol boats, 18 helicopters
-Air Force of 10 major aircraft (whether MPA or MRCA), 11 C-130s, 5 B200s, 29 helicopters, and 24 trainers.
Food for thought.
I think there is 17 keris patrol boats, 8 FAC gun, 8 FAC missile and 4 laksamana corvettes that can be retired already(assuming RMN just concentrating on combat operation) 0n paper 2 lekiu frigates, 2 kasturi corvettes and 2 subs plus 6 missiles armed heli makes a potent deterrent force. IF the NGPV CAN BE armed with exocets and MANPADS, it can be a secondary combatant force for RMN while awaiting for the Maharajalela to come by 2020
“Any malaysians interested? Better pay than joining ISIS in Syria LoL! http://www.defenseworld.net/news/23622/Indians__Bangladeshis__Kenyans_Can_Join_UK_Armed_Forces#.W-IoYGnmg0N”
From at least five years ago, Australia has had a similar offer. Differences were that applicants had to have military experience but were not limited to commonwealth countries, and Australian citizenship was expedited.
Some decades ago a Singaporean joined the RAAF after serving in the RSAF. Singapore wanted to make an example of him so they objected to his participation in a joint exercise when his name appeared on a list.
There was also an RSAF ground crewman who assumed a similar role in the RNZAF in the nineties. In both posts he worked on Skyhawks.
@ chua
New Zealand consciously made their defence expenditure 0.8% of GDP as their remote location and their only neighbour is a strong and traditional ally made defence a very low priority in their scheme of things.
For the army actually if we multiply the nz size by 2.25x and multiply by 6 for the difference in salary you actually get the current size of the malaysian army.
As for the navy we spend the largest percentage of development expenduture now with the navy. And do realise each cost of helicopters such as NH90 of NZ navy can buy an OPV (like the MMEA one) instead.
For the airforce the 4 P8 MPA costs USD1.45 billion. So 10 P8 is about USD3.6 billion. That is probably enough to buy 18-24 MRCA plus 40 LCA brand new. Its 11 texan trainers also costs 2x of our PC-7 MkII.
@ kamal
Currently TLDM has only 2 kris class patrol boats (KD Sri Johor and KD Sri Perlis maintained in excellent condition, others at the bottom of the sea as artifical reefs after service with MMEA), 6 FAC gun, 8 FAC missile (with no missile), and 4 Laksamana (which is to be replaced 1 to 1 with LMS).
@…
But ISIS offer of Fastpass into Heaven with 72 virgins waiting is rather difficult to top. lolz 😉
BTW comparison with other countries is moot. UK global presence hinges on its colonial era territories (which became US bases lolz) and playing 2nd fiddle as shadowing force to the larger US fleets (lolz again). And NZ does not have a sea to split their country, thereby requiring 2 sufficiently deterrent forces on BOTH sides like what we have(or will have). Furthermore, their Aussie ally is certainly much more reliable than our regional neighbours. Someone here mentioned before that countries defences can’t be compared apple-to-apple as its depends on geography, criteria, affordability, manpower, and threat perception.
@joe
“Fast pass to heaven”
Lu berani cakap, I tak 😂
For a non-superpower UK is actually one of the best. True they have some advantages due to their colonial past, but to their credit they recognise the importance of maintaining those advantages. And the base in Bahrain is brand-new.
At least they can play 2nd fiddle to somebody. Unlike us who play 2nd fiddle to nobody.
Yeah there are difficulties comparing the 2 as I mentioned. Operating costs are impossible to compare, however procurement is doable, especially between countries with no domestic defence industry – everything is bought from overseas, sometimes from the same source, easier to compare, IF the quantums and contract details are known.
@…
I only did a cursory overview. No in-depth look into capabilities e.g. the NZ infantry battalions are more well-equipped, with full mortar and ATGM support. Good drilldown on the P-8s.
US$ 3.6b inclusive of MPAs, mind. A more realistic force mix might be 24 Super Hornets, 30+ FA50/TA50 mix, 12 ATR72 MPA – just an example off the top of my head.
@Chua
Hehe. Well nobody came back to confirm if its a lie or not so they might as well promise as high as the sky. It did worked in other subject matters, no? But being a soldier in British service (or Aussie or even USA), meant the high chance of being at the frontlines of their wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, random African states).
If given the choice, I’d rather join US Marines (yes, apparently foreign citizens are allowed to join the Marines and fasttracked to US citizenship if can stay alive).
As for procurement comparison, not fully comparable either. NZ, much like Aussie, are close US allies hence they have more access to higher end US hardware (like F-35), and at hugely subsidised prices unlike purchases by non-aligned nations like us. Case in point, Israel’s F-16i cost USD$50mil/plane while equivalent F-16V to Bahrain was priced at USD$146mil/plane.
@joe
Join US Marines rather than British Army, in order to AVOID combat… son, I…
Yeah, it’s not easy to compare prices, but a range can be determined with more samples and with details of what the contract includes.
The F-16I cost US$50m in 2003 dollars and is not equivalent to F-16V at all, it’s a 2-seat Block 52 with a pulse-doppler radar and stuffed with Israeli electronics, whereas Bahrain’s F-16V cost US$70m in 2018 dollars, is a 1-seat Block 70, 100% American with AESA radar. Big difference.
The $146m figure for Bahrain includes support. The F-16I program inclusive of support is estimated to be about $70m. There may be some subsidies yes but the lower figure is natural since Israel provides lots of their own electronics and weapons.
However NZ doesn’t receive aid from US either.
@ chua
And NZ can afford to buy them in 1 go. I dont think malaysia can buy MRCA, LCA and MPA in 1 go. That is a big difference.
@Chua
Did I mention to AVOID combat? Please do point that out.
I only wrote that if joining the foreign legions of British, Aussie or USA armed forces, there is a high chance of being at the frontlines of their wars. But if given these choices, i would rather join the US Marines. The equipment and support is the best that you can get.
As for the F-16 comparison, yes I do realise in terms of fit out they differ much. What I’m trying to say is, back in 2005 the ‘i’ is the best foreign sales version available much like ‘V’ is the best that other countries can buy. But look at the price differences! Even factoring Israeli electronics (most US planes now have them as standard anyways), the price gap is too big a difference which would meant some form of subsidy given to their closest allies.
I’m not sure for how it goes for friendlier allies like Aussie & NZ but certainly the prices for their new materiel, we would not get the same when we buy via FMS.
All comparisons with israel are moot anyway as the fighters are given for free (or paid for) by the US government and most electronics in the aircraft are made in-country by israel. Do you know that every single F-16 conformal fuel tanks is made by IAI, even those for UAE and turkey.
http://www.iai.co.il/2013/37120-37514-en/Groups_Military_Aircraft_Lahav_Products_AerostructuresWiring_BuildToPrint.aspx
@…
I would not go to the point of saying free but for sure USA heavily subsidised the hardware for its closest allies. That’s what I was trying to point out. Price comparison for US hardware would also have to take into account the different standings between nations vis a vis to USA.
Another we can compare would be the purchase and refurb of M109s between us and Brazil. (Hopefully can get the prices for comparison sake).
@ joe
Allies are one thing, Israel is on a different level altogether. Brush up and read more on Israeli-USA defence matters, and how USA subsidizes billions of Israels defence materials.
@ joe
Allies are one thing, Israel is on a different level altogether. Brush up and read more on Israeli-USA defence matters, and how USA subsidizes billions of Israels defence materials.
“Lu berani cakap, I tak”
Perhaps the Malays would take issue with you. But nowadays the worst would come from those of our own kind who consider us disloyal.
@ AM
What are you inferring with all this “own kind disloyal” stuff? Our loyalty should be to the king and country 1st and foremost.
@…
I am well aware of US-Israeli relationship (what did Mao said? As close as lip and teeth?) but also that such dealings isn’t free, only at hugely subsidised prices. Other close allies like Aussie, Brit, NZ, Japan, Korea, & somewhat Taiwan, are also extended such privileges to various degrees of “subsidies”. Those purchasing via FMS like us to buy at their prices? Fat chance!
@AM
Most levelheaded Malays would not be so easily taken in by ISIS propaganda.
“Our loyalty should be to the king and country 1st and foremost.”
Chua was speaking as a Malaysian Chinese when he said “Lu berani cakap, I tak”. I was saying that as Malaysian Chinese, we are and ought to be patriotic. We participate here with Malaysia’s security interests at heart.
Yet there are those of “our own kind” who are contemptuous of those interests, who are not shy about telling us off if we advocate them. They’d readily tell off anyone who disagrees with them, but for us they have a special disgust because of who we are.
@ joe
As I said, read more on US-Israeli defence matters, and how all the “buy” is actually fully paid for by US taxpayers. There is no other country that gets this special privilege, not even close allies.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-israel-defense/key-u-s-lawmakers-want-to-boost-israels-38-billion-defense-aid-package-idUSKCN1GB2NQ
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2018/03/understanding-military-aid-israel-180305092533077.html
@ AM
Malaysians mostly are not knowledgeable of defence matters, unlike singaporeans for example, when even something recent like lahad datu is not openly discussed. Threats like ISIS affects everyone in malaysia, not just muslims for example. Fisherman are harrassed by foreign navies and coast guard are of all races, malaysian chinese included. So defence is not just protecting some of malaysians, but defending every single malaysians, wherever they are in the world.
@AM
I think you’re being off context with Chua’s statement about that matter.
Just to clarify
I mean it’s dangerous to say things like these, if one is the wrong colour. The wrong perception can be made, whatever the intention.
Anyway lame joke so er yeah moving on 😅
@…
Let me clarify my meaning about US-Israeli and others thingy.
Level of military relationship (diminishes as it goes down):
USA
Israel/ Taiwan(somewhat. Mainly old stuff donated)
.
UK/ Aussie/ NZ
.
.
The other EU countries/ Singapore/ Korea
.
Friendly Arab countries/ Friendly Pakistan
.
.
Nonaligned (ie Malaysia, Indo, Philippines, etc)
As the level diminishes hence the subsidies as well.
@joe
Not bad.
I would put UK/Aus/Canada (the “ABCA”) above Israel, as they are close equal partners whereas Israel and Taiwan are more like close client states. Also relationships with these two have soured occasionally.
Japan and Korea too, though not as close as ABCA.
NATO next, Singapore slightly below.
Then Friendly Arab countries.
Then INDIA, not Pakistan, Pakistan is in disgrace ever since the Taliban/AQ war and Osama was the final straw.
Then Non-Aligned, which is basically just everybody who is not an outright enemy. This is where we are.
@ chua
Close relationship is 1 part of the equation. Another part of the equation is the military aid USA pours into israel.
No other nation on earth has that kind of money for free from uncle sam for their defence. F-35? It is free using military aid approved by us senate.
Taiwan AFAIK paid for all their weapons and upgrades from USA.
Yes other countries like egypt, iraq, afghanistan do get free brand new stuff, but it pales in comparison to what israel got.
@…
We know the quantum of US financing. It is $3b a year.
From this amount I presume the sales value is deducted.
That is why the cost figures remain relevant for comparison purposes – being already “free” as it were, it shouldn’t deviate much in pricing.
And of course best is to combine data from many other contracts too.