SHAH ALAM: RMN’s LMS Batch 2 bigger size and better capabilities is the result of ongoing and continuous China’s intrusion into Malaysian maritime zone, Defence Minister DS Khaled Nordin said in a reply to a written question in Parliament today.
Cheras MP Tan Kok Wai asked why LMS Batch 2 will be bigger and better armed than LMS Batch 2 the four LMS Batch 1. Although he did not asked it outright, his questions also implied that LMS Batch 2 will be more expensive than the China-made LMS Batch 1.
Khaled said RMN had categorised the LMS Batch 2 procurement as a critical and badly needed capability. It’s bigger size and armaments compared to the LMS Batch 1 were due to several factors.
“The main factor is the continuous increase in current threats, especially in the country’s strategic maritime interests in Sabah and Sarawak. Over the past 8 years, there has been a significant increase in the intrusion foreign warships following an incident during an oil exploration operations in Sarawak waters. Chinese Coast Guard vessels continue to intrude
waters of the Malaysian Maritime Zone , while the total number of RMN ships assigned is disproportionate to the amount of the intrusion. This meant RMN’s ability to defend the sovereignty country when maritime operations are affected.The next factor is the need to balance the ability of existing combatants. The RMN fleet is divided into two regions namely the Western Fleet, in Peninsular Malaysia and the Eastern Fleet for
Sabah and Sarawak.The assets of the Western Fleet consists of combat ships, patrol ships, logistics support ships and helicopters, while the Eastern Fleet consists of patrol ships, auxiliary ships, submarines and helicopters. RMN ships with combat capabilities are with the Western Fleet.
Ships in the Eastern Fleet are limited to patrol capabilities without having the ability of three-dimensional warfare that is Anti Surface, Anti-Air and Anti-Submarine.LMS Batch 1 currently deployed in the Eastern Fleet are small and are capable as a Patrol Vessel only (no full capability combatants), as well as less suitable for operating in the open sea.
Hence the procurement of a combat capable LMS Batch 2 is a critical requirement for
bridging the gap in the capabilities of RMN ships and strengthening the fleet’s deterrence capability.
It is interesting to note that despite calling the LMS Batch 2 ” critical capability” Khaled failed to say whether its procurement will be expedited. We know from past statements that the ships – LMS Batch 2 – are badly needed that the ministry had even asked from several countries whether they could sell their already completed ships to us, even at a higher price. Their answers – likely Turkiye, Ukraine and Pakistan – were in the negative.
As Malaysian Defence reported previously, the LMS Batch 2 will be the Ada class – though which version – Turkish, Ukrainian or Pakistani – is still being scrutinised by the bean counters in the Finance Ministry. As PMX has appointed a new Finance Minister 2 – Senator DS Amir Hamzah Azizan – perhaps the decision will be made soon.
That said the number of officers in the ministry – the actual bean counters – likely remained the same.
— Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (82)
LMS Batch 2 Corvette is clearly the wrong answer to the question.
The intrusion is mostly by China Coast Guard, by white-painted large OPVs.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG6YclmbAAALUnA.jpg
The question that is best answered by APMM with APMMs own white-painted large OPVs.
The biggest problem why this is happening is that APMM is under KDN - Kementerian Dalam Negeri. KDN has no appetite whatsoever to solve what is basically a foreign relations issue.
We need to take APMM out from under KDN to fully empower APMM to discharge its duties.
Even with current budgetary levels, we can fully equip APMM with the ships it needs as per listed in its Pelan Perancangan Strategik Maritim Malaysia 2040 (PPSMM 2040) which is to have :
– 20 large OPV
– 96 medium PV
– 228 FIC/RHIB/RHFB/RIB below 20m in length
https://www.malaysiandefence.com/mid-term-review-of-dwp-19/#comment-890540
We do really need to upgrade TLDM fleet, but not as an answer to Chinese Coast Guard intrusion.
Lightly armed corvettes will not be survivable in future high intensity wars. Other navies that will operate in waters in and around our country such as Australia, Indonesia, Singapore etc. are building bigger and bigger ships due to the need to carry more missiles to counter advanced anti-ship missile threats. I am of the opinion that corvettes is not the way, but fully completing all 6 Gowinds before 2030, and replacing Kasturis and Lekius with larger Arrowhead 140 in 2031-2040 while getting 6 instead of 4 Scorpenes by 2040 should be the way forward.
"LMS Batch 1 currently deployed in the Eastern Fleet are small and are capable as a Patrol Vessel only (no full capability combatants), as well as less suitable for operating in the open sea"
Guess that's official confirmation then of what used to be hearsay that missile boat size ship are unsuitable for operation in the EEZ. Even if it can sail to the north pole.
… - “ Lightly armed corvettes will not be survivable in future high intensity”
This is silly generalised conflation viewed from a very narrow lens.
As has been pointed out on numerous occasions : not survivable in what context? Need a reminder again that the LMS is not expected to be placed where it has to punch above its weight level; that placed in a wrong context even a cruiser would not be survivable and that the LMS is not expected to operate alone? Even the LCA which you can’t stop pouring praise on would not be survivable of employed wrongly. Instead of regurgitating simplistic assumptions based on your narrow perspective looks at things in the proper context. Have you even asked the pertinent question if the RMN sees itself in the “high intensity” fight you spoke off and whether the rest of the fleet is equipped, structured and trained for it?
Also has it ever occurred to you that selling the Chinese intrusion angle is a way of justifying the purchase? You’ve also overlooked that the RMN has categorically stated why it wants the LMS which should leave no room for obfuscation and cluelessness.
… - “ I am of the opinion that corvettes is not the way”
It’s how they are armed; how they are deployed and the operational context; not the issue of being “corvettes”. WhT is the “corvette” is better armed than a “frigate”?
References to other navies is silly. Other navies have different operational requirements. If you need a reminder navies don’t get things for the same if it. Before peddling mote spurious direct comparisons take a hard look at how the requirement of the RNN, RSN and TNI- AL differ.
You missed the highly pertinent point where the Home Ministry is not the lead agency when it comes to issues pertaining to overlapping claims with foreign countries. Thus it’s not the question of “appetite” as you boldly stated.
Another point you constantly overlook is the the needs of the RMN and MMEA are two slightly different things. Yes both have to and do to an extent coordinate their efforts but ultimately both are different entities funded by different budgets and answerable to different chains of command.
Zaft,
There is no “hearsay”. FACs and ships of similar displacement/size are not intended for extended ops in open waters. They lack the seakeeping, range and endurance. If actually interested take time to research the limitations of S-Boots and MTBs in WW2 and the role the missile armed FAC was intended to perform when it appeared in the 1960’s.
The LMS Batch 1s as imperfect as they are have far superior seakeeping to the FACs
You’ve been regurgitating the same theme over and over again so for the benefit of others who are not as well informed please provide us with a source to show that the RMN intends in getting OPVs. It behooves you since you keep insisting despite being told you’re off [I assume you’re the same person and not an imposter].
BTW the LMS Batch 1s done count as they were meant to be armed and were an aberration; the proposed Kedahs don’t count as that was years ago and they were intended to be armed to perform certain secondary wartime tasks and the LMS Batch 2s don’t count irrespective of the fact that they’ll be “corvettes” and be modestly armed.
Please do show us if the RMN has any such plans or will have such things plans in the near future. Failure to do that means you’re just regurgitating something with no basis.
@Hulubalang
"the opinion that corvettes is not the way, but fully completing all 6 Gowinds"
You mean the pathetic 'corvette capable no SAM' Gowind? This is almost a joke. The Gowind is just a corvette nowadays and you implying 'corvettes is not the way' but yet also still 'need complete all 6 Gowinds'.
A well designed corvette should have at least 8x cell Mk41 VLS with quad pack ESSM in defensive wise more capable than the Gowinds. Instead of completing the 6th Gowind, another option is to buy extra 2x LMS2 with 8x cell Mk41 VLS. The sonars could also be moved from Gowind to LMS2 if there is a will.......
@ Luqman
The Gowind LCS will be armed with VL MICA. The budget is allocated (it is a part of the budget that has not yet been used) but we have not bought it yet. All other weapons, from the guns to the NSM missile has been fully paid for.
LMA Batch 2 Corvette would be a smaller hull than the Maharaja Lela class Gowind LCS. Smaller size + smaller budget.
The budget for 1x LMS Batch 2 is just RM833 million per ship. With current exchange rates, it is only around USD175 million.
Do you think a 90m Corvette can pack ESSM + the associated radars for just USD175 million????
To get 32x ESSM missiles would cost nearly USD60 million...
Just from guessing, the design that would be chosen is the Hisar OPV variant of the Ada family, due to it being cheaper and easier to build than original Ada (according to the Turks) hence why there is possibility to get Ada sized ship at lower than usd200 million per unit ie the hull without sensors and weapons itself might cost almost similar as Damen 1800 OPV.
@Hulubalang
One might not need to buy all 32x or any ESSM/MICA/Mistral/whatever SAM straight away. For the 'corvette' Gowind VL MICA, 'money allocated but haven't bought yet' = 'no VL MICA available during commissioning' = 'FFBNW in practice'. But it is better to have such allocations of Mk41 cells so that not just ESSM can be carried but also ASROC and SM2 hence LMS2 have potential to have more versatility than the actual LCS
Marhalim, isn’t this history repeating itself? The original desire of the TLDM was to have LCS of the Sigma class of approximately 2000 to 2500 class. That got scuttled by the government of the day for the larger Gowinds instead. Now that thats been delayed, the TLDM is pushing for ships of about the same size under the LMS B2 banner instead?
Yup