SHAH ALAM: Latest Gempita Variant To Enter Service. The latest Gempita 8X8 vehicle – the Armoured Engineer Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Reconnaissance Vehicle (AENBCRV) – is expected to enter service soon. Since its official acronym is a mouthful, I am going to call it Gempita NBC, when it enter service with the Army.
FNSS release.
The Armoured Engineer Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Reconnaissance Vehicle (AENBCRV)version of the AV-8 Wheeled Armoured Vehicle (WAV) developed by the FNSS and DRB HICOM Defence Technologies Sdn Bhd (DEFTECH) partnership for the Malaysian Army is preparing for delivery in the first half of this year.
Passing all tests with flying colours, the AV-8 AENBCRV entered the second and final stage of the qualification process, during which its endurance was tested.
The AV-8 AENBCRV is fitted with CBRN detection equipment and systems to detect and classify of any type of chemical, biological, radioactive or nuclear agents. The vehicle can determine and classify the hazard zone and alert other military units and civilians of potential dangers, thus enabling them to take the necessary countermeasures.
Possessing a complex and modern system architecture and mission-specific equipment, the AENBCRV’s initial vehicle development processes – comprising conceptual design, detailed design, manufacturing and assembly – was carried out entirely by FNSS.
The ongoing qualification tests serve to demonstrate that the vehicle fully and comprehensively meets the requirements set by the user. The first stage of these tests, involving Land Performance Tests and CBRN System Tests, has already been completed after being carried out at FNSS’ facilities in Ankara. The second stage of the tests – the Endurance Tests – were launched in Malaysia in February 2019 Following the successful completion of these tests, the acceptance and delivery of the first vehicle to the end user will take place in Malaysia in the upcoming days.
Under the project, four AENBCRV vehicles will be delivered, the first of which will be the vehicle that completed its qualification tests. The remaining three vehicles will be manufactured and delivered by FNSS by 2020.
FIRST 8X8 CRBN Vehicle
The AV-8 AENBCRV stands out as the first 8×8 CBRN vehicle to be developed by FNSS. The components of the CBRN system, as the main mission equipment aboard the vehicle, was procured from domestic and foreign suppliers in line with the user’s preferences. FNSS has also conducted indigenisation works on some of the CBRN system’s subsystems, thus aiding domestic subcontractors in acquiring new competencies.
Commenting on this latest milestone reached by the company with the AV-8 WAV project, K. Nail Kurt, General Manager and CEO of FNSS, said: “The AV-8 WAV project continues to be the single largest defence system export contract signed by Turkey in the field of land systems, and it is also one of the most complex projects in its field due to the large number of vehicle configurations involved.
Integrated with a wide variety of mission equipment, the AENBCRV is the one of the AV-8’s most challenging configurations to date. We have fashioned the vehicle in close contact with the user, ensuring they are supplied with the specific capabilities they need. Our vehicle is now proving itself in rigorous tests, and I believe that it will pass all of these with great success, becoming the best in its class and joining the inventory of the friendly and allied nation of Malaysia. With this vehicle, both FNSS and the Turkish defence sector have acquired very important capabilities. In the upcoming period, we are ready to meet with the best solutions any need that the Turkish Armed Forces and friendly and allied nations may have in this particular area.”
— Malaysian Defence
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This is a great news!
I believe we now have more than 100 gempitas delivered to the army. Any news of the latest number and when the last one is to be delivered?
Eh? So this NBC variant is CBU from Turkey, not locally assembled like the other variants?
Reply
Based on the release it is
Just to list down the variant and numbers
78 IFV30
46 IFV25
54 LCT30
8 120mm mortar
24 VINTAQS reconnaissance
13 Command
9 Ambulances
9 ARV Recovery
9 Maintenance
4 NBC reconnaissance
3 SIGINT/Communication
Right now it seems that the gempita numbers are enough for just 1 Mechanized Battalion and the 4 Cavalry Regiments (this is just enough to replace the SIBMAS, so it will still be a mix of Gempita and Condor for at least now). I hope that there will be a 2nd batch of the Gempitas, for additional 2 Mechanized brigade, to transform the 4th Mechanised Brigade into a full wheeled IFV Brigade.
My idea for Malaysian future armoured/mechanized formations…
the 3rd Division to be a fully armoured/mechanized.
3rd Division is based in West Malaysia.
?nd Royal Engineers Regiment
?nd Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers Corps
– 3rd Division Artillery HQ
2nd Royal Artillery Regiment (Kluang, Johor) Hawkeye 105mm J-LTV
22nd Royal Artillery Regiment (Sikamat Camp, Seremban, Negeri Sembilan) M109A5+
7th Royal Artillery Regiment (Kuantan, Pahang) Hawkeye 105mm J-LTV
– 1st Armour Brigade (Rasah Camp, Seremban, N. Sembilan)
11th Royal Armour Corps (Syed Sirajuddin Camp, Gemas, Negeri Sembilan) 44 PT-91M 30 MIFV
12th Royal Armour Corps (Sunggala Camp, Port Dickson) 44 PT-91M 30 MIFV
14th Royal Malay Regiment (Rasah Camp, Seremban, Negeri Sembilan) 100 Adnan
15th Royal Malay Regiment (Rasah Camp, Seremban, Negeri Sembilan) 100 Adnan
– 4th Mechanised Brigade (Batu 10 Camp, Kuantan, Pahang)
19th Royal Malay Regiment (Mech) (Lapangan Terbang Camp, Sungai Petani, Kedah) 70 AV8 28 J-LTV
7th Royal Ranger Regiment (Mech) (Batu 5 Camp, Mentakab, Pahang) 70 AV8 28 J-LTV
12th Royal Malay Regiment (Mech) (Daralockwood Camp, Kuantan,
Pahang) 70 AV8 28 J-LTV
505th Territorial Army Regiment (Mech) (Teluk Sisik Camp, Kuantan,
Pahang)
1st Royal Armour Corps (Batu 10 Camp, Kuantan, Pahang) 44 AV8 34 J-LTV
– 7th Infantry Brigade (Mahkota Camp, Kluang, Johor)
5th Royal Malay Regiment (Batu Tiga Camp, Kluang, Johor) 70 AM4 28 J-LTV
10th Royal Malay Regiment (Bukit Banang Camp, Batu Pahat, Johor) 70 AM4 28 J-LTV
6th Royal Ranger Regiment (Ulu Tiram Camp, Johor bharu, Johor) 70 AM4 28 J-LTV
501st Territorial Army Regiment (Tebrau Camp, Johor Bharu, Johor)
* AM4 would be a APC/MRAP that could carry 3 crew + 8 dismounts, to cost no more than USD1 million each. Benchmark – Singaporean Belrex.
* J-LTV to be bought off the shelf, costing no more than USD450k each
Complement:
1 Mechanized Gempita (3 battalions)
48+6 IFV25
6 Command
4 120mm mortar
2 Ambulances
2 ARV
2 Maintenance
28 J-LTV (6 HWC, 6 ATGM, 12 GP, 4 ambulance)
1 CAVALRY RGT (Kor Armor Diraja) (4 regiments)
24 IFV30
12 LCT30
4 Command
2 ARV
2 Maintenance
34 J-LTV (12 HWC, 6 VINTAQS, 12 GP, 4 ambulance)
1 Mechanized (3+2 Battalions) *1 mechanized battalion each in Sabah & Sarawak
48+6 AM4 APC
6 AM4 command
2 AM4 ambulance
4 AM4 maintenance
4 AM4 logistic
28 J-LTV (6 HWC, 6 ATGM, 12 GP, 4 ambulance)
The real question is will there be a 2nd batch order of AV8 Gempitas? Rather than upgrading the Sibmas, Condor and etc, replacing them all into one common platform is more efficient. We can drive the mtnc cost down by employing the economic of scale. This will make investing on more variants like for SAM or 105mm AT cannon more sensible.
Reply
That’s the one million dollar question isn’t it…
FNSS also recently showed Omani Pars III engineering vehicle.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ExTt2fceUus/XMLBFn3jNCI/AAAAAAABuOI/t8rF9-i9xQ8A8Q7qKjbnD1WRNLpPbB1uACLcBGAs/s1600/pars-8×8-istihdam-araci-haber-3.jpg
Mine clearing plough
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CLK1vSO_1Do/XMLBFt-Y0jI/AAAAAAABuOM/Z5dqatN20RsVFkBuwAUJ3-VT9kBL8tubACLcBGAs/s1600/pars-8×8-istihdam-araci-haber.jpg
Off topic
Looks like 10 PARA support company is seriously looking at reviving its long stored 106mm recoiless. Any reasons for this?
https://scontent.fkul16-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/58571197_2647158638646368_5762405368747524096_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul16-1.fna&oh=23fa26bb5d10951fe629f01a89d8b173&oe=5D71EF9F
Reply
Based on the BTDM posting, I believed the test firings were done to forward to the Army hq that the weapon is already obsolete, hence the involvement of STRIDE. It is likely that the Army HQ got flak from the ministry for declaring the Scorpions obsolete and calling for its retirement and asking for replacement without referring to any one.
Which of our potential threats employ chemical weapons though?
Costs and numbers for the gempita 2nd batch.
Most of us knows how much is the cost of the gempita 1st batch. It is insanely high but that includes all the “national capability development” of R&D of the various variants and also the manufacturing capabilities and infrastructures. It also probably includes all the ammo and ingwe missiles that comes with the gempita.
With all those costs already paid for, a 2nd batch of gempita should be of a significantly cheaper cost.
To have the required numbers as my plan above, a buy of around 180 more gempitas would be needed. This would consist mainly of the IFV25 variant.
As for the cost, an average target price of USD3 million for each new gempita batch 2 would be ideal. This is based on a few comparison of current IFV prices (Israel Eitan, Oman PARS III etc). There should also be no new gempita variants, so no R&D costs. That would give a total cost of less than USD550 million, which could be paid for with tentera darat budget within 1 rancangan malaysia.
@ Chua
Bombing of our water processing plants could release deadly chlorine gases. It would also be useful in surveying destroyed industrial areas for hazardous chemicals in war, before the larger forces move in. CBRNe capabilities are also useful in chemical emergencies such as in pasir gudang recently.
@chua
terrorism threat using dirty bomb
Looks like 10 PARA support company is seriously looking at reviving its long stored 106mm recoiless. Any reasons for this?
On that matter, which units of ours fielded the 106 and when was it retired? Wikipedia lists Malaysia as having 24 guns.
Found some info here on where we got them and what we mounted them on.
https://www.malaysiandefence.com/weststar-gk-m1-weapon-platform/
Can’t find any pics of the 106mm in our service. Would anyone know if looked like this in our usage?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/5ezaq5/106mm_recoilless_rifle_being_fired_by_south/
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/2013.5.13_%ED%95%B4%EB%B3%91%EB%8C%80_1%EC%82%AC%EB%8B%A8_2%EC%97%B0%EB%8C%80_M40A2_106mm_%EB%AC%B4%EB%B0%98%EB%8F%99%EC%B4%9D_%EC%82%AC%EA%B2%A9_A_Recoilless_Rifle_Fire_Drill_of_Republic_of_Korea_Marine_Corps_1st_Division_%288737281428%29.jpg
Would not have expected Korea to have had it in service until so recently. They also had the smaller M67 recoilless rifle in use not long ago.
Reply
If I remember correctly the guns were bought together with the KIA jeeps in the 80s or 90s. Since the jeeps were mostly retired even I thought the recoiless rifles were retired as well
Say @ …, do you think the AV8’s design is modular enough for DefTech* to develop a SAM platform variant of it like in the picture below?
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Boxer-indirect-fire-concept.jpeg
*: Assuming if DefTech has the resources and knowledge for missile tech development.
Reply
The image is of the surface attack missiles launcher like the HIMARs. Even if it has the tech to do it, which they don’t, the Army has to fund it first, they don’t have the funds for it
Re: 106mm RR
Lots of them at the Military Museum at Port Dickson
Google for photos
Let the regulars use the new armoured vehicles.
Refurbish the Condors n the Sibmas n the Scorpions n Dultans to the Wataniah. As these would not be intensively used they would last a long time. The Wataniah use to operate the old bedford trucks n the land rover long wheel base for a long time. Then the Mercedes trucks were passed down. So on a similar reasoning passing them old armoured vehicles make sense. The recoiless weapons can also be passed to them
@ xan verda
I understand where you are coming from. But IMO it is too expensive to put a missile such as CAMM or VL-MICA onto the gempita.
It is better for our Jernas replacement to be mounted on their original intended (truck-based) launchers.
But for air defence of our armoured and mechanized formations, we curently have or going to have 6x Starstreak RapidRanger systems on uro vamtacs. If we are going to have J-LTVs like in my plan, it would be good if those RapidRanger systems transferred onto the J-LTV.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7XlDHgH4TQg/W9nMC1rkilI/AAAAAAAA9ts/P2DFF82lUyALKNn05-MY3Qdei6L-vChxQCLcBGAs/s1600/44974743-477820192739582-8615481736081440768-o.jpg
Another option is to buy surplus Stormer HVM and transfer its Starstreak turrets onto Adnan, MIFV or J-LTV. UK has 151 of these and most have been decommisioned and stored.
http://www.milweb.net/webvert_images/77961/img_1.jpg
I am thinking of the lower cost J-LTV (USD450k each, less than 1/3rd the price of even the LIPANBARA) to be the platform for supporting roles, for example
– recce, transferring the VINGTAQS masts from gempita.
– SP howitzer. Putting the Hawkeye 105mm gun onto the J-LTV.
– Air defence. Startreak RapidRanger system.
http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/high-res/JLTV_Group_J1A5102_10x8_cmyk.jpg
@…, Marhalim Or anyone, how to get ROI for procuring a defence asset eg navy ship like LMS? We know the price of each. Pls help for my academic assignment. The way I see it, there is no income from a
public defence asset like a navyy ship after bought and put into service. In fact, the spending continue for operations and maintenance. How to value for money spent on defence asset? Or how to quantify the benefits if possible at all?
With at least six the M106 guns at the Army museum in PD, I doubt they are still in service though
Reply
They are actually but used without the KIA jeeps
@ jo
That is easy.
It is pretty similar to any other investment that the government does.
For example.
Buying fire engines for Bomba.
Buying Proton Preves for Polis.
Building Hospitals.
So how do you quantify the benefits for these? It is the same for military hardwares.
Okay, for bomba, the ROI could be how many fire situations that they are able to successfully solve. So think about what the LMS can do.
If you want to do a more meaningful assignment, compare the ROI of say the MMEA NGPC with say the LMS in doing the same task.
@ lee yoke meng
It can be done if those equipments still have plenty of spares and ammo. The operating costs should also be negligible. It would also be good if former operators of those equipment when it was in regular service would be around in wataniah to impart operational experience of those equipment to civilians in wataniah. IMO trucks and equipment like the Condor that uses civilian mercedes truck parts can be passed on to wataniah. Scorpions and Stormers? Better put them in museums (in good condition of course).
Them recoilless rifles would be great to destroy hardened emplacement for cheap, and urban warfare in ME and marawi saw how the military had had hard time destroying them
Even the american used them in Afghanistan, either from Vietnam war stock that was reactivated for service, or bought the easten bloc ones from bulgaria
@ jo
Put this from another perspective.
How do you quantify the ROI of merdeka and peace that you are enjoying?
@ alex
US army uses the carl gustav (made in sweden, not bulgaria), which is a new weapon for them. Not those huge 106mm recoiless guns. We have been using carl gustav since the 80s, and is still using them.
Malaysia
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Thiy5-LIG-w/S7IV1NAsIrI/AAAAAAAAAtc/rXLevFIx-gM/s1600/Image043.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Malaysian_soldiers.jpg/400px-Malaysian_soldiers.jpg
Usa
http://amp.businessinsider.com/images/58d528d5112f7048008b6995-750-563.jpg
@…, Is it sufficent just to state the increased ship days at sea, availability & readiness above 85% and monetizing of 10% of lost revenue from fishing and smuggling (IUU) plus other things?
@Jo
ATM needs to learn from US and UK and publish more operational information for the consideration of Rakyat and MPs.
For example, for UK, any Rakyat can request for information under the Freedom of Information act, and any MP can make a formal Parliamentary Question, as to certain data regarding military activities.
E.g. for Air Force, how many times RAF Typhoon fighters were sent to perform air intercepts in a period, and what is the cost per flight hour to the UK taxpayer
E.g. for Navy, how many days at sea some ships were on operations and what is the operating cost per year
Furthermore there is close media coverage and announcements made of units and ships sent on operations. Take a look at the HMS Queen Elizabeth Twitter account for example, but also the socmed for their destroyers and frigates… and even submarines.
Even when their attack submarines suffer accidents the news is reported. Naturally the nuclear missile submarines are much more secretive but that is understood.
This information helps reinforce the trust that the British military is achieving the stated objectives such as enforcing the country’s naval EEZ, air defence QRA, and other worldwide defence commitments.
By contrast, we hardly know the activities of our Navy ships, Air Force jets, and Army units. Unless it’s for meet and greet with foreign units, parades and demos, and of course very importantly, Raya berbuka dinners…
Hi guys, this is going to be a very stupid question, but its have been nagging me, i have zero knowledge about these IFV and armoured stuff, just wanna know.
Why isit that Gempita, Terrex, and other 8×8 looks very similar, how do you differentiate them from visual recognition?
Yours truly ,clueless
@ alpha zulu
Its the subtle differences that is important. It is similar to westerners, that chinese, korean and japanese letters looks similar.
Gempita has multiple periscopes that looks like windscreens on its front. It also has manned turrets. The tyres have special armor layer on its sidewall. Digital camouflage.
Terrex is usually overall drab green and has large baskets arranged on its side. Usually only has small RCWS.
Hope that helps.
I do hope that front line movers can be fully converted to AV8 Gempitas and AV4 Lipan Baras, no more relying on softskin trucks to move personnel to the frontlines anymore.
At worst if we cannot afford for a RWS station onboard the Gempitas, at least make more with 50 cal manned shielded weapon station.
@ joe
I would agree with you if the lipanbara is affordable, but at around USD1.6 million each, IMO it is not. We just got 20 units, and it is not too late to get another cheaper platform for that purpose. DRB-HICOM should content to get gempita batch 2, and give the APC/MRAP requirement to another company.
For example something like the Aussie Bushmaster costs USD500k. A locally build APC/MRAP should IMO cost more than USD1 million each.
If we want to convert 7th Brigade into a mechanized brigade with APC/MRAPs, plus 1 independent battalions each in sabah and sarawak, plus 1 battalion on UN missions (a total of 6 battalions). A total of at least 420 APC/MRAP would be needed.
@…
I have seen the Bushmasters and imho they are about the length and height of Gempita which is moot since both are just as cumbersome but Gempita having better protection. Reason why I would stick with Lipan Baras is due to their smaller size for urban usage. I envision a big (AV8) and small (AV4) people movers for their respective functions and capabilities which should compliment each other.
Are the Condor and the Sibmass will be retired soon? My take as their parts are based on commercial MAN Truck, they should be continued usage by RAMD atleast the next 10 years. Maybe based them all in Sarawak and Sabah (even together with the Scorpion and the KIFV). Same thing with Nuris. Too obsolete for high end combat duty but still have sufficient life for other daytime supporting role. Why not just based all the remaining 28 Nuri’s in Sabah and Sarawak. The army already have about 10 A109 plus the Air Force 12 EC725, which sufficient for semenanjung. Sabah and Sarawak not as easily accesible by road compared to Semenanjung.
@ kamal
To fully buy something that I planned above, the batch 2 Gempitas (170 vehicles), J-LTVs (500 vehicles) and APC/MRAPs (450 vehicles) will require around 15 more years to complete. Condors (most likely) and SIBMAS (least likely) would still be needed to serve during that 15 or so years.
it could look something like this
– RMK12 2021-2025 USD1.1bil
170 AV8 Gempita batch2 0.5
225 J-LTV 0.1
80 PT-91M batch2 0.25 refurbished PT-91 include upgrade batch1
150 Polaris DAGOR A1 0.03 10PARA
30 ZBD-03 IFV 0.06 10PARA (replacement for scorpion/stormer)
20K SOLDIER SYSTEMS 0.1
72 LIG Nex1 Raybolt ATGM 0.05 (replacement for ERYX, Metis-M)
– RMK13 2026-2030 USD1.1bil
225 New APC/MRAP 0.25
225 J-LTV 0.1
36 VL-MICA / CAMM 0.25 (replacement for Jernas)
20K SOLDIER SYSTEMS 0.1
90 LG-1 105mm 0.1
40 Hawkeye 105mm J-LTV 0.1
60 LIG Nex1 Chiron MANPAD 0.05 (replacement for IGLA)
– RMK14 2031-2035 USD1.1bil
225 New APC/MRAP 0.25
40 155mm Towed Howitzer 0.25
16 HQ-16 MR-SAM 0.3
20K SOLDIER SYSTEMS 0.1
?? Electronic Warfare 0.2
@ kamal
To fully buy something that I planned above, the batch 2 Gempitas (170 vehicles), J-LTVs (500 vehicles) and APC/MRAPs (450 vehicles) will require around 15 more years to complete. Condors (most likely) and SIBMAS (least likely) would still be needed to serve during that 15 or so years.
it could look something like this
– RMK12 2021-2025 USD1.1bil
170 AV8 Gempita batch2 0.5
225 J-LTV 0.1
80 PT-91M batch2 0.25 refurbished PT-91 include upgrade batch1
150 Polaris DAGOR A1 0.03 10PARA
30 ZBD-03 IFV 0.06 10PARA (replacement for scorpion/stormer)
20K SOLDIER SYSTEMS 0.1
72 LIG Nex1 Raybolt ATGM 0.05 (replacement for ERYX, Metis-M)
– RMK13 2026-2030 USD1.1bil
225 New APC/MRAP 0.25
225 J-LTV 0.1
36 VL-MICA / CAMM 0.25 (replacement for Jernas)
20K SOLDIER SYSTEMS 0.1
90 LG-1 105mm 0.1
40 Hawkeye 105mm J-LTV 0.1
60 LIG Nex1 Chiron MANPAD 0.05 (replacement for IGLA)
– RMK14 2031-2035 USD1.1bil
225 New APC/MRAP 0.25
40 155mm Towed Howitzer 0.25
16 HQ-16 MR-SAM 0.3
20K SOLDIER SYSTEMS 0.1
?? Electronic Warfare 0.2
@Kamal
Condors & Sibmass still are useful to bring up supporting troops once breakthru is achieved by the Gempitas, though Sibmass is more of a fire support vehicle and not an APC per se. The Condors are still reliable workhorses and no problem for them to remain in Semenanjung if they stay in the secondary role as above. Scorpions should be retired since their running cost is claimed to be too high even for sparse usage.
And as for Nuris, they shouldn’t be in Sabah & Sarawak as they are illsuited for the hilly and forested terrain. Even in daytime, fog & mist can cloud a jungle area pretty quickly and it will be very dangerous for them unless they have a pilot chopper with terrain navigation they could follow.
Wouldn’t you want a gun based AA gempita variant? It would be very expensive if every battlefield drone had to be shot down with missiles.
Reply
Most of the Gempitas are already armed with the 50 caliber HMG, they just need guidance to deal with the COTS drones and probably some EW weapons too military ones
Sorry to dig up an old topic
From the article above. It seems that Tentera Darat will get a total of 7 Armoured Engineer Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Reconnaissance Vehicle (AENBCRV), instead of just 4 in the original plan.
Are these considered additional units?
Or the original variants composition has now significantly changed?
If not mistaken, there is no sightings so far of the Recovery and also the Fitter/maintenance version. Are these variants cancelled?
;Wouldn’t you want a gun based AA gempita variant? It would be very expensive
Even if there was cash for that many missiles a auto cannon is still needed for engaging targets at certain distances and in circumstances where they is a short window of opportunity. The key is also for the vehicle to have a radar.