SHAH ALAM: Back in July 2023, Malaysian Defence reported that a tender for procurement, supply, testing and delivery of an 84mm anti-tank weapon system or the Saab Carl Gustav M4 – the latest version of the recoilless rifle – was floated on the Eperolehan website.
The tender was for 110 launchers and unknown number of ammo. The seven types of ammunition sought include high explosive anti-tank; high explosive dual purpose; anti-structure; anti-personnel, anti-deterrent; smoke and illumination. Some of these are guided munitions.
The contract for the tender was awarded to Global Combined Technology Sdn Bhd with an LOA of RM27 million.
The launchers and ammunition, it appears, are ready for delivery as a quotation notice to find the multi-modal transport operator (MTO) was published today. The winning bidder will ship the launchers and ammo from the Arlanda airport in Sweden to the 91 Central Depot at the Batu Kantomen camp in Kuala Lumpur. It is likely that the delivery will be completed by the third quarter of the year. Depending on how fast they complete the bidding process, of course.
If they are fast in appointing the MTO, the paratroopers from the 10th Para Brigade may well be parading with their new Goose M4 at this year’s National Day parade. At 6.4 kg, the M4 is lighter than the M2 version in service with the Army. The Army had previously also purchased 84mm ammunition from a different manufacturer.
Update. The Goose will be supplemented by the Instalanza C90 LAW, the tender of which was published earlier this year.
Apart from the Goose launchers and ammo, another quotation notice was also published today to find the MTO to ship 7,000 105mm high explosive rounds. Unfortunately, the public portion of the specification did not reveal from where the rounds will be imported.
The tender for 105mm HE rounds was published in 2022 and the company which won the bid is GGS Global Sdn Bhd with an LOA of RM29 million.
— Malaysian Defence
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110 M4 Carl Gustaf launchers for RM27 million in the bigger scheme of things, is dirt cheap. We need at least 220 more (incl attrition spares) to reequip all infantry battalions with the M4 (if each battalion is allocated 6 Carl Gustafs as per BIS), including rejimen sempadan batallions (which as been officially designated as BIS battalions)
It will be cheaper if we buy them directly from Saab.
No new update on Karaok ATGM?
Nope
Can somebody in the know please elucidate the firepower strength of a typical platoon. Is there an RPG is each platoon and a Goose in every company? What about the other disposable rockets? Anyone?…
Yes there seem to be a RPG or two in Army platoon nowadays. The Goose is held with the support company AFAIK, same with other disposable rockets. ATGW is also with the support company. SHORAD is with GAPU units.
@Hulu
“reequip all infantry battalions with the M4”
We have other rockets & ATGMs…
The army have enough RPG-7 launchers to arm each rifle section with one RPG
If the Al-Qassam brigade can produce its own Yasin RPGs under severe occupation hardship, what is stopping our defence industry producing the very same RPGs or better?
Again, not only for our TDM but I am sure there is demand from the market, being battle proven against the Merkava.
Our production of even small arms ammo were not successful. So what do you think of RPG rounds?.
>what is stopping
Nothing. Any malaysian companies wanting to make their own RPG-7 launchers/munitions can do so whenever
In the current army BIS organisation. Theoretically each battalion will have
6x Carl Gustaf in support company
54x RPG-7 (2 units for every 8-man section.
Currently only 3 BIS infantry battalions have dedicated ATGM missiles (Metis-M, to be replaced with Karaok). Mechanized units have Baktar Shikan. Para units have Carl Gustaf + NLAW + C90.
>even small arms ammo not successful
Commercially no. Then again, if malaysian army (and police) themselves don’t want to support locally made ammo how do you expect other military to have confidence in peluru buatan malaysia?
We used to make ammo for guns, 105mm howitzer, munitions for carl gustaf etc. Our surplus 308 rounds is tested by Ian McCollum and it’s an perfectly adequate rounds.
This is what the gomen got their priorities wrong, supporting the companies that assembled thailand made armored vehicles and passed it off as Malaysian made or bailing out some ailing shipyard instead of supporting the more critical part of military industry, like ammunition or steel production
@Hasnan
“Al-Qassam brigade can produce its own Yasin RPGs”
But is that commercially viable? Whether small scale or large scale, manufacturing has to be profitable to be viable w/o any subsidy, that is base condition whether its in capitalist USA, communist Russia, or under siege Palestine.
Therefore in a commercial sense, production demand has to consume at similar rate to production supply otherwise there will be excess which the buyer will not pay for. In Palestines reasoning, they are using up ammo on a near constant basis even before the invasion.
But what about Msia? If we can produce 1 million bullets annually to not make a loss, does our various users (Armed Forces, PDRM, MMEA, GOF, GGK, heck maybe Rela) can use up 1 million bullets to keep the production line running year after year? If we make too much excess and keep to stock, how long can we keep before we run out of space or else should we just bury excess ammo?
@dundun
“like ammunition or steel production”
Ohh have you heard of Perwaja, Megasteel, Amsteel, or Lion Group? How many millions gone just to support local steel production and where they end up today?
@ marhalim
” At 6.4 kg, the M4 is lighter than the M2 version in service with the Army ”
Actually at that weight, it is similar to the RPG-7 that is supplied down to section level. The RPG-7 weighs around 6.3kg empty.
Which raises the question. Should we still equip the Carl Gustaf at support company level, or we could now see the M4 as an option to the RPG-7 (ie an infantry squad in a BIS battalion can be equipped with either the RPG-7 or M4)?
>how many million
If the government is willing to bail out and nationalize BHIC they could do the same with Perwaja thing with Perwaja
The only reason they bailed out BHIC is because of LTAT. That is the only reason they had to bail out BHIC. Unlike Perwaja, yes, money was lost but no other entity is affected by it. The workers of course got stiffed…
AFAIK there is no plans to replace the RPG-7 with the Goose.
Given the way we are we should stick to the ubiquitous stuff like the RPG7. Easy to source and won’t get stiffed excessive ly in a wartime situation. Good also in the meantime learn how to jerry-rig the RPG7 to the DJI FPV drone and turn it into an affordable kamikaze drone.
The Goose round is also light, 3.1kg with its rocket booster, lose the booster it will be probably around 2 KG. About the same weight of an RPG round without the rocket booster.
I did not say anything about replacing RPG-7 with M4.
” BIS battalion can be equipped with either the RPG-7 or M4 ”
Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
” 3.1kg with its rocket booster ”
Carl Gustaf is a recoiless rifle, not a rocket/missile launcher. The CG round is more like an artillery shell
https://sun9-17.userapi.com/c855428/v855428751/aa848/TFPiVsZJE4Q.jpg
Yes now there are attempts to create a missile that can be launched from the CG, but in all purposes, the CG is a recoiless rifle, just like the 106mm M40 recoiless rifle. Only smaller and can be lugged on the shoulder.
https://www.malaysiandefence.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/m40.jpg
@dundun
It is as what Marhalim said, the Govt then had bailed out way too many companies & corporations in the private & GLC sectors that we cannot continue doing that anymore, we are pretty much broke. Look at our economy & weak currency.
Im all for local production if it makes financial sense, or at the very least even if its money losing but it can be a long term venture to provide sufficient jobs for many years.
maybe we can design a camouflage sleeve for the M4 like this?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMjpVLLW4AAYHos.jpg
Hulubalang
probably more to do with this lmao
https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/liqgwu/chinas_new_disposable_rocket_launcher_lookingvery/#lightbox
@ dundun
That is scary 😧
dundun – ”Then again, if malaysian army (and police) themselves don’t want to support locally made ammo how do you expect other military to have confidence in peluru buatan malaysia?
Why should we pay more merely to support ”peluru buatan malaysia” when it’s cheaper and faster to source it from abroad? All the material needed for the ‘peluru buatan malaysia” has to be imported and paid for in foreighn currency.
Hasnan – ”If the Al-Qassam brigade can produce its own Yasin RPGs under severe occupation hardship,”
Because they have to and are not worried about the cost ….
Actually, I really don’t understand this as an outsider. Why the need for a third-party company to be involved at all? Why doesn’t Mindef deal with Saab or the Swedish government directly? Other than for purposes of …
Because that is how the MY government procurement rules, of course, part of the DEB policy.
Having local vendor will help with local maintenance issues. Some companies like Leonardo and Aselsan opened their regional branches here to do it themselves whilst other couldn’t be bothered and appoint these third parties companies on their behalf.
Even if the implementation is piss poor the idea is pretty common even in other more developed countries. In America any companies wanting to sell their stuff to US military needed to either set up shop in US or partner with US defence companies. KAI partnered with Lockmart to and promote T-50 for USAF trainer jet deal whilst eurocopter had to set up production facility for UH-72A lakota (basically freedomizied EC-14)
You’ve been a long time observer/visitor; here and if I’m not in Trishul. Thought it would be obvious by now that the whole idea was so local companies could get some know how and in turn could eventually contribute. Plus the intention was/is to get spin off directed to the local economy; jobs, profiting, locally produced parts, etc. The idea was/is sound but the reality isn’t. It has had a major detrimental affect on the MAF and taxpayer and only a selected few local companies actually offer any tangible results which benefit the country or make the transition from being merely an agent to a company offering added value. Unforthcoming despite the detrimental affects some are still enamoured of the idea of local production, self sufficiency ; etc.
The US can afford those things as it has a bigger budget and they also buy more of the stuff. It is not about maintenance issues, as things like weapons and firearms are fixed by the user themselves. They only buy parts from local companies.
Like any industrialised nation, each will have their own preference for doing it “locally”. What makes some success and some others a failure is down to just money and with a realistic expectations from it. USA, EU, heck even Korea, SG, etc have well subsidised and funded programs to ensure they become a product, and it doesnt matter if it can be successfully exported or not as long as the demand from the end user is enough to cover the cost of TOT and local production otherwise the enduser will understand and stomach the high cost of each equipment.
We otoh, think we can make things locally cheaper so we time & again budget a program just to fail.
dundun – ”In America any companies wanting to sell their stuff to US military needed to either set up shop in US or partner with US defence companies”
Yes but there is economics of scale; there is continuity and local companies there usually offer other value added services rather then just being a glorified forwarding agent. The issue of local companies here was also to reward companies [read bumi connected companies] as part of the patronage system. One can justify the part local companies play all they want but the fact remains that one reason we have an MAF we can’t afford to equip they way it should be and the fact we don’t get the best value for what we spend is because of the highly flawed, self defeating and politically driven policy we have entrenched.