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• One of the reasons 3 Commando Brigade was able to sustain itself so well in the Falklands is because it had a Commando Logistic Regiment; comprising a Supply, Ordnance and Medical Squadron. The role played by the Commando Logistic Regiment was pivotal in 3 Commando Brigade being able to do what it was tasked with. The Para Regiment also had something similar but did away with it due to funding issues.

  In the case of 10 Para Brigade I find it hard to believe that planners would expand the unit by adding another battalion without also doing the same with its command, staff and supporting elements. There are only so many battalions a peacetime Brigade HQ can handle and administer; unless of course that HQ was bloated to begin with.

  BTW, on the subject of howitzers that can be underslung by heli - sounds great on paper [just like having howitzers that can fit inside a Charlie or a A4000M] but its totally dependent on having the needed assets that can fly the needed sorties when needed. It takes about 18 Nuri sorties to lift a battery of Model 56s, its crew and ammo [about 350 rounds per gun]. This of course doesn't included the additional sorties to keep the battery resupplied.

• It's easy to be mesmerised or be impressed by the fact we have a mechanised brigade, a para brigade with 4 battalions and others equipped with AV-8s but the fact remains that the bulk of our 35 odd infantry battalions are motorised ones, equipped mainly for low intensity or defensive type roles. We simply can't afford to equip the bulk of our units they we they should be equipped.

  For that matter even 10 Para [which has strong backing within the army] is still not fully equipped - more than 20 years after it was raised - to do what it's intended to do. Yet it was decided to add another battalion [with all the needed costs and resources] to the brigade.

• First of all,

  Congratulations to 18th RAMD for the great milestone in its history.

  Now we have 4 parachute capable and trained battalions in 10 PARA.

  @ azlan

  " It takes about 18 Nuri sorties to lift a battery of Model 56s, its crew and ammo [about 350 rounds per gun]. "

  Yes 18 is about right. But what kind of force are you fighting that requires helilifting 6 guns to put 2100 rounds of 105mm shells on the target? That is more than enough to flatten a small town. Would CAS with aircrafts be an alternative?

  " For that matter even 10 Para [which has strong backing within the army] is still not fully equipped "

  Please describe your meaning of "not fully equipped" so we can debate further.

• Helmet "fritz" nowhere to be seen at the jump lah. They jumped using the new pattern "SOF style" helmet.

• .... - ''what kind of force are you fighting that requires helilifting 6 guns to put 2100 rounds of 105mm shells on the target?''

  You make it sound as if I was talking about lifting whole regiments of arty to support a corps level formation.

  To answer your question : it depends. Irrespective of whether it's a low or high intensity conflict, one has to be able to factor in for the worst [just like your mention of how the units trains to march 30km from its DZ to its objective]. Not all future scenarios we might face might be like anything else previously faced, in which ammo resupply wasn't an issue or ammo useage rates were low.

  The point I was reinforcing is that having arty that can be underslung is great but it depends on the needed helis being available at that particular time and the ability of those helis to fly the needed sorties. It's great if those helis aren't busy doing other things but chances are, they will. On top of that we only have so many helis.

  ... - ''That is more than enough to flatten a small town. Would CAS with aircrafts be an alternative?''

  If they're available. 10 Para or any other unit can't base what it has, in terms of arty or anything else, on whether CAS might or might not be available. It has to ensure that it can get the most or best on what it has.

  .... - ''Please describe your meaning of “not fully equipped” so we can debate further.''

  As always, happy to oblige. I would have thought that my use of “not fully equipped” would be plainly obvious.

  Since it was raised in 1994 what major new equipment has it received? In terms of actual equipment how does the 4 battalions and its supporting arms differ from other units, apart from the Scorpions, Stormers and Supacats? With regards to what the unit wants and my meaning of “not fully equipped”, it's no great mystery, we only have to look at past interviews and reports : high mobility vehicles, better and more secure comms, etc, etc. Not to mention stuff like optics, NGVs, body armour and personal comms.

  Months after the unit was raised, the then Defence Minister said that the ''the purchase of new equipment for the unit would be carried out in stages in line with allocations provided''. General Tan Sri Borhan spoke of the unit’s ''inadequate firepower, mobility and logistics'' [note his choive of words]. Fast forward to 2018 has the unit's ''firepower, mobility and logistics'' really been improved since it was formed in 1994?10 Para is our showcase unit, our strategic reserve, our elite. Yet we still can't equip it the way it should be equipped to perform the roles that only it and no other units can perform. That is telling .....

• "inadequate firepower,mobility & logistics"...what about adding organic utility and gunship helicopter? I know this deviate very far from "para" and into domain of "air calvary".

  Is RPG-7 issued to paratroopers?

• @ Azlan

  " You make it sound as if I was talking about lifting whole regiments of arty to support a corps level formation. "

  Nope, that is just 1 battery that you are talking about. Why are you seemed surprised by your own statement? 1 regiment of 105mm howitzers would have up to 18 guns.

  " With regards to what the unit wants and my meaning of “not fully equipped”, it’s no great mystery, we only have to look at past interviews and reports : high mobility vehicles, better and more secure comms, etc, etc. Not to mention stuff like optics, NGVs, body armour and personal comms. "

  What stuff that is new after 1994?

  - G-wagons
  - vamtacs
  - Eryx
  - Igla
  - Anza Mk2
  - Harris software-based secure comms
  - New helmets
  - New body armor
  - Colt M4
  - RPG-7s

  Granted it could be improved, but as it is they are one of the best equipped brigades that malaysia has, and i don't recall any recent articles or interviews with the mention of 10 brigade para as being "not fully equipped". As it is right now, there has been plenty of improvements since the 1994 launch and the storming of langkawi airport by the then new 10 Para.

• ... - ''Why are you seemed surprised by your own statement?''

  By your reaction : that's why.

  It's not a question of me being ''surprised'' [isn't my ''statement'' actually but from a Nuri pilot] by the statement but rather me being surprised by your reaction to the statement; as to why so many rounds would be needed and the reference to CAS doing the job and a town that can be flattened by that amount of ammo. Even in brief, low intensity border clashes involving Thailand and Myanmar and Thailand and Laos hundreds of rounds were expended by both sides.

  .... - ''1 regiment of 105mm howitzers would have up to 18 guns.''

  No it depends. It has been found that 6 guns per battery is too cumbersome and some batteries have 4 guns.

  ... - ''What stuff that is new after 1994?''

  Stuff that the unit has been asking for since the 1990's ......
  Stuff like M-4s, RPG-7s, etc, are no big deal and are issued to the army as a whole.

  .... - ''As it is right now, there has been plenty of improvements since ''

  If you say so.

  In reality there haven't been much improvements; both in hardware and in command and support elements. BTW the
  G-Wagons and Eryx are gone. The plain fact is that we lack the cash or the priority to even fully equip our main showcase, elite unit - our strategic reserve. Despite your denials the way 10 is equipped doesn't differ much from other units. Equipment it has been requesting for [I've explained what that is] since the 1990's and early 2000's is still forthcoming. As to body armour and new helmets; only a small portion of the brigade is issue with them.

  Nimitz,

  Yes and those helmets look great. But at the end of the day do the rest of the infantry battalions who make up the bulk of the army have any chance of getting those helmets or any other fancy stuff that might only be issued to 10 Para? We all know the answer to that. The fact remains that we don't the needed cash to fully equip even half, [never mind all] the infantry battalions we have [about 35 including the Border Regiment ones].

  The ultimate irony is we went from a rifle with a scope to one which doesn't yet have one. The M-4 at present is probably the most ''accessorised'' gun there is but almost 10 years after it was first ordered where are the scopes and other stuff that make it ''better'' than the AUGA1? Some 5 years after Lahad Dato where is the body armour to equip our infantry? Our Minimis have Picatinny rails but where are the scopes? 16 years after being ordered the PT-91 crews are still waiting for their simulator which was to have been ordered from Ruag.

  We haven't sorted out the the basics yet but are looking at stuff like the ''Future Soldier System''. We should be putting our cash to better use rather than doing a bit here and a bit there. We put so much emphasis on 10 Para but what about the other units that make up the bulk of the army? Even in the 2 Commando GK [which before 10 Para was the most favoured unit] battalions; scopes, body armour and NVGs are not widely issued.

  People will be all gung-ho about another battalion achieving ''para status'' [after all who doesn't like the idea of having elite jump units?] but how will 8 Brigade cope with its operational commitments now that it has one less battalion? Where will the extra ''x'' million ringgit that is needed yearly to maintain an extra para battalion [to ensure an extra few hundred men keep their wings and to train new recruits, as well as the use of aircraft] coming from? If we really wanted to do something with more utility, practicality and substance; we would have converted a unit into a marine type unit. One that has an amphibious [albeit limited] capability and trains to be rapidly deployed by sea and one that can garrison the Spratlys.

• @ azlan

  The nuri pilot could just answer your question of how many sorties for a battery of pack howitzers to be lifted out. But operationally for a shoot and scoot mission by helicopter probably 3 would be enough. For the defence of a remote post for example in afghanistan, 1-2 howitzers are the number usually used. If they really need a whole battery, that fight should have a ground or airdrop logistic support, with the helicopter used just for the surprise factor. And as i said a regiment can be up to 18 guns, so something less is also possible.

  I have no idea if the g-wagons are gone. If it is, they must be replaced by more vamtacs. The 18 RAMD is seen equipped with vamtacs as the fire support vehicle. Body armor and new helmets are given to all, but the use depends. They are seen with body armor in lahad dato and NBOS missions in KL city and KLIA. As for scopes, the experience with AUG probably results in the conclusion that iron sights are adequate enough and there would be less issue with broken scopes? But there are those in pandura with m4 equipped with scopes. Minimi needing scopes? Even singaporean ultimax is not fitted with scopes. It is a fire support weapon and is intended to spray bullets, so a scope is superfluous.

  More improvements can be done:
  - now the new helmets come with NVG atrachments so i hope to see more NVG available to the soldiers
  - it seems that the armor plate carrier is not compatible with our parachute. Need to get a plate carrier that can be worn with the parachutes.
  - mobility. You know my preferences, no need to repeat it here.

  The total forces in the area is still the same, just the 18 RAMD no longer reports to 8th brigade. 18 RAMD still operates in east coast area. In exercises terengganu is also the operating area of the 4th Mech brigade. So no issue of operational commitments.

  As for an amphibious force, yes it is desireable, but we don't have the equipment (ships) for now.

  Reply
  The amphibious force which surfaced a few years back was a proposal from the policy department, it was never supported by the uniform side.

• .... - ''The nuri pilot could just answer your question of how many sorties for a battery of pack howitzers to be lifted out. ''

  He has. The problem is lifting not only the battery but its crew and ammo. About 60 105mm rounds can be lifted by a Nuri.

  ... ''For the defence of a remote post for example in afghanistan, 1-2 howitzers are the number usually used.''

  And for the 2nd Emergency a single gun with around 30 rounds could support a whole battalion but so what? It's not indicative of what we might face in the future. It depends on the circumstances.
  The need to lift a whole batttery of guns and the ammo it needs [including reserves] is for a worst case scenario, i.e. a high intensity conflict or one in which the battery might not be resupplied so soon. Having said that however, even low intensity conflict like border clashes can involve a huge expenditure of ammo.

  ... - ''As for scopes, the experience with AUG probably results in the conclusion that iron sights are adequate enough and there would be less issue with broken scopes?''

  No it's because the agreement between Stery and SME went balls up and we had to go for anothe rifle because we couldn't support the AUG anymore and SME needed work. We got the new rifle but didn't have the cash to fit it out, thus the irony of going from a rifle with a scope to one that doesn't have one. In this day and age [as you're aware] only a fool goes into combat relying totally on iron sights.

  ... - ''mobility. You know my preferences, no need to repeat it here.''

  Never mind your or my preference. The unit has long wanted high mobility vehicles.

  ... - ''As for an amphibious force, yes it is desireable, but we don’t have the equipment (ships) for now.''

  As I said previously, a ''limited'' amphibious capability, which we do have in the form of 2 MPSSs and 2 FTVs which admittedly are better suited for delivering troops to a pier rather than a beach but nonetheless we do have some means of transporting men and heavy gear by sea. Plus, if we had to, there's always the option of using commercial shipping, which when it comes to delivering stuff to a pier, can do the job just as well as a LST.

  At the end of the day, a Marine unit or a rapid deployable unit [call it what you wish] has more utility than another para unit to add to the 3 we already have and can't afford to fully equip.

  ... - ''And as i said a regiment can be up to 18 guns, so something less is also possible''

  In many armies it's now 4 guns to a battery - easy to command and move. Same reason why many Troops have 3 rather than 4 MBTs.

  ... - ''The total forces in the area is still the same, just the 18 RAMD no longer reports to 8th brigade.''

  You miss the point I was making. 18 RMR is now part of 10 Para, which means 8 Brigade has one less battalion. The number of troops remains the same but it's under the command of a different higher HQ and in a different area.

  ... - ''It is a fire support weapon and is intended to spray bullets, so a scope is superfluous''

  How did you reach that conclusion? If that were the case then others won't fit scopes to GPMGs, LMGs and HMGs but they clearly do. Also, the Minimi is not intended to spray bullets - do that and not only do you run out of ammo but you burn out your barrel.

  The point I was making is that we don't even have to cash to fully fit out our showcase elite unit yet we're all gung ho about 10 Para and about stuff like the Future Soldier System. What we're doing is buying and doing a bit of everything but ultimately not doing enough. We are a window dressing and not focusing on anything.

  ... - '' They are seen with body armor in lahad dato and NBOS missions in KL city and KLIA. ''

  Doesn't mean the whole unit is issued with them. Plus, most of the body armour seen at Lahad Dato was the soft type. This is what happens when we neglect the basics. 5 years after Lahad Dato the bulk of out troops still don't have body armour. The pics you see of troops with fancy new helmets and other gear is not a reflection of the army as a whole.