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• The aircraft has not become an 'embarrassment'. What has become an 'embarrassment' is the fact that the government expected an aircraft first ordered in 1968 to operate without any upgrades. [Apart from the weather radar installed years ago] The same government that decided that tanks and MLRSs play a more crucial peacetime role than the Nuri. The situation is only made worse when opposition figures make ill informed and ludicrous statements concerning our defence needs.

• very much agree with you sir azlan and may i add the same government seems to have a dismall attitude towards a preventive maintenance culture.

• Perhaps our very large VIP fleet should be sold off? The S-70s, after a minor conversion, could be used to support PASKAL or Gerak Khas. Instead of flying VIPs, the AS-61Ns could be used for SAR work, freeing up the overworked Nuris. The 2 VIP configured CN-235s could be given to 21 Squadron instead of flying our VERY, VERY IMPORTANT PEOPLE.

  Marhalim: If you recall I made the same suggestion on the S70 when the tender for the Nuri Replacement programme. It seemed that none of the services were interested in light twins (helos in the same class as Blackhawk) yes they are as expensive as the medium twins but they have smaller footprint which is good for our AOOs. As for the rest of your suggestions, its seemed reasonable but the powers that be seemed oblivious to reasonable suggestions....

• Our MMEA got 3 AW139 costing more than 200mil USD. God knows how much it spend on the 2 canadair amphibians and the 2 dauphins it got now as the costs was never metioned to the public.

  For 200mil USD, you can get 20 units of Mi171Sh or V5 with upgraded cockpits and FLIR for the RMAF, not just a paltry 3 helo's. Thai army recently bought some brand new Mi171's for 8.5mil USD apiece.

  And the same goverment that approves the grand spending of MMEA cannot see that the Nuri replacement is more urgent than what MMEA needs.

  Or they just think about their pockets, not the national interests?

  Marhalim: Its National Interest alright....
  Sad... very sad.

• The Dauphins and AW139s will go a long way in taking some strain of the Nuri fleet. Apart from its traditional roles, the Nuri squadrons still have an SAR tasking. I'm still totally against the Mil17Sh. Whilst its certainly cheaper than a Dauphin, it operating costs are much higher. The same with many Russian products, due to the fact the engines have a much lower mean time between failure [MTBF] than Western types. The Mil-17 also need more maintanence hours for every hour of flying than a western type. According to Dzirhan in another forum, the RMAF is currently very unhappy that the Russians are slow in meeting contractual obligations with the Su-30s and are blaming it on Thales. This is a case of history repeating itself as several years ago, the Indian Air Force had the same problems.

• The problem that i understood about the russion from other foreign forum is that yes they will sell u cheap but once u bought it, be prepare to shell out more money for upgrades and special maintenance that seems to occur every 2-3 years as opposed to western products that normally occur between 5 years. Having said that i am still in favour that we have two tier supply system, one from eastern block and one western one. Read me out here:-

  1) I tend to agree that although the western products tend to last longer, it is in my believe that it comes with all sort of strings that practically bind us defenceless. In a conflict say with our southern neighbour, i personally believe,we will be the hardest hit with any arms embargo. Not to say that the eastern block would not do the same but recent conflicts in the balkans even in middle east tend to say that they will stick with their customers..so long as the money is coming though not 100% support.

  2)In terms of spare parts, India and China have somewhat come to some form of self reliance when it comes to items such as teh sukhoi jet, MIL choppers etc. Though quality is suspect, it does gives us alternatives

  3) The defence fraternity seems to have alot of complains about serviceability of eastern products, but i heard also they had many complains about western products such as the BAE Hawk, aug steyr etc. Yes the eastern products tends to need more care but considering the acquisition price of about 1/4 to 1/2 less than similar western products, i say let us have an attitude change when it comes to maintenance culture first.

  4) The western expensive products could be the tip of the spear while the similar eastern products could be the back bone.

  Marhalim: IMO, our biggest problem is our lack of regard for maintainence issues, in all level of society not just defence. Thats the main reason, I only planned for the purchase of war stocks for my Tenth Malaysian Plan. Yes we can buy a lot things even for RM5 billion but if we do not allocate enough money to maintain the new and legacy equipment all of those money will be wasted. That had happened before during the economic crisis of 1997. Suddenly two years after getting our new shiny Hawks, Hornets and Fulcrums, we ran out of money to even fly and maintain them. We had not prepared ourselves for such a shock. I see this sad state of affairs from occurring again. With the operational budget being cut even with the arrival of new hardware (Sukhois and PT91M) one wonder how the Armed Forces will prevail this time around.

  I am no financial expert but I believe if we were to spend RM5 billion on new things I think we need to spare at least RM1 billion annually to maintain them for at least twenty year plus the extra money needed to maintain the legacy systems. And the amount is on top of the money we need to pay for our soldiers and operations........

• Probably a lot will disagree with me but I dont believe our southern neighbour is a threat. I would be more worried about our other neighbour. The neighbour who was against the formation of Malaysia. The same neighbour who in the past has tried to assert its position as the 'big boy' of ASEAN. Indonesia may be a Muslim country, but in terms of culture, history and trade, Singapore and Malaysia have a lot more in common to bind them.

• Based on my limited experience in project costing, you would normally commit around 10 to 20% of the purchase price annually as normal wear and tear maintenance cost with additional 3-5% annually as reserve for upgrades between 4-5 years time.

  And my limited exposure with Gomen econmic boys and girls in the past for other economic projects, these does not seems to be factored in properly.

• Eastern vs western stuff has always been a serious debate among us. But consider this:
  1) who has enforced more embargo because of championing democracy over the world? (it has to be their brand of democracy, no consideration for any variation of it)
  2) who has always stated "we are not against Islam" but their action proves otherwise? (it has to be their version of Islam, regardless what Islam actually is)

  Hopefully those authority can actually take these into consideration in their purchasing decisions. Hopefully...

  As regard to equipment maintenance, we should put Peugeot/Alfa/conti fans in charge. Those people know the virtue of preventive maintenance first hand! :)

• Our fascination with Singapore speaks more of our own insecurity and envy than any real threat posed to the nation. As a smaller nation with minimal resources they have created a military that is heads and shoulders above our own. In every metric they are superior from the amount of money they spend to the reservist system they have built and ultimately our own inability to prevent 'national interest' from further eroding the value of our expenditure, they are a painful reminder of where we have gone wrong and how much better we could be. Should we engage in a shooting war with them, we would suffer disproportionately.

  As far as I am concerned, if we are embargoed by the US and go to war with Singapore, it would be merciful release since they are respectively our No.1 and 2 trading partners, accounting for 50% of our trade.

  Singapore is the bogeyman of the ultras, used to scare a segment of our demographic, to justify the de facto stranglehold of a small clique on the Army and beyond that, the Armed Forces. IMO, the only service not subject to this is the Navy which has traditionally had a rational view of its role in the security of our nation. It is also the only service with a holistic outlook.