SHAH ALAM: In an earlier report on the LMS Batch 2, Malaysian Defence had reported that there were four 92-meter sized ships being offered for the programme. Two ships are from Turkey – the Dearsan C92 corvette and TAIS Shipyard with its 92-meter OPV and the South Korean Hyundai Heavy Industries with HDC 2000 LMS also at 92 metres in length.
The fourth candidate is the Gading Marine Industries Sdn Bhd/Damen Sigma 92-meter corvette.
Even with five candidates (the favourite is the Ada class frigate from STM) already, Malaysian Defence can reveal that there is another candidate waiting in the sidelines. If the programme goes to the tender process, of course, though it seems PMX had poured cold water on that.
A local company will be proposing the sixth candidate together with two foreign companies, Malaysian Defence was told. I am not naming the local company (for reasons, though it is not Boustead Naval Shipyard.) One of the foreign partners is CMN Naval of France. CMN was the builder of the Perdana class FAC, all four of which remained in service, some fifty years after they were commissioned into RMN.
CMN Naval is now part of an international group of shipyards which include the German Naval Yard, Keil which is one of the shipyards which built the Meko A100 corvette for the German Navy and the Israeli Saar 6. The Meko A100 on steroids. What CMN Naval says about itself:
CMN NAVAL’s facilities and shipyards are located in France, Germany and the United Kingdom. CMN NAVAL has delivered more than 3,500 vessels and provided support to 42 navies around the world. Products range from 15-meter high-speed interceptors to frigates.
CMN website shows three corvette designs that could be offered for LMS Batch 2 programme – the C92 (Saar 6); Baynunah, and SeaGuard 96. The sources however did not reveal which design will be offered for LMS Batch so I am assuming it will be either the C92 or the SeaGuard 96.
It is likely it will be the SeaGuard 96 that will be offered for LMS Batch 2 if it come to that. This is because it is a design from CMN Naval itself. Even though it is not the C92 corvette, the SeaGuard 96 remain a cousin to Kedah class.
— Malaysian Defence
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So @marhalim ADA class is not favourite design for LMS II and it will take much longer for TLDM to get their LMS II right?
If not mistaken in turkeye,SG & SK. Their equivalents of STRIDE would handle the foreign partner & design selection & subsequent R&D while their equivalent of BNS & Deftech would handle manufacturing. Their military meanwhile are task with drawing the requirements but are not given the right to choose the winner & would used whatever is given to them.
Pjan – “So @marhalim ADA class is not favourite design for LMS”
If you read the story; I believe he did not say or allude to that.
Zaft,
Been through this before. Procurement agencies will in short ensure that the end user gets what’s paid for at the best or optimum value and that all contractual obligations are adhered to; Armscor and FMV.
In our case if we ever had one; the agency would comprise officials from MINDEF, the armed services: MOF, Foreign Ministry and PM’s EPU unit. It’s job is not to make selection but to recommend and act after selection is made.
Any reason there’s are delay on lms? Price problem or cant decide on weapon system for the ship? Few month ago navy said they will get first ship in 2027 but now i don’t think it will
Does the LMS Batch 2 require a hangar? Dearsen C92 and standard Sigma 9113 doesn’t have a hangar. Ada, Saar6, Seaguard 96, modified Sigma 9113 (modified Indonesian Diponegoro version) and HD2000 have a hangar. Presumably not having hangars would reduce cost, while a hangar requirement would narrow the choices to the Ada, HD2000 and the modified Sigma 9113. Of course one could go the dreaded FFBNW route and stay within the budget.
At the end of the day…the price tag will limit what RMN can choose.
Yes a hangar but not for a helicopter
It is still early days, really
Romeo – the price tag will limit what RMN can choose”
It determines what the RMN gets. The politicians choose.
Ultimately what we get will be modestly armed but it’s hoped that over time we get it in numbers and can operate not on a platform level; i.e. able to “talk” with other ships and able to “talk” to RMAF MPAs and UASs.
RMN ships can talk to each other as well as RMAF planes
Ada class is the favourite
@Zaft
A blind procurement process works just as well in liew of any major structural change to the procurement system (which is highly unlikely to happen).
@Haiqal
“Any reason there’s are delay on lms?”
Simple. Adamantly wanting a Beemer but only have budget for a Proton, so how?
One option is to Kedah’fied it (FFBNW and only come with guns) but TLDM also wanted all the bells & whistles to come along with the ship, so how?
Realistically the other 4 options listed above is the more affordable options but will TLDM heads acquiescence?
Or could it be yet another case of trying to fit what TLDM wants, into a measly budget what the beancounters willing to pay, and what the politician ministers could reveal to public without ruffling Opposition feathers, via ‘creative magic accounting’ of fitting 6 ships into a budget for FIVE and succinctly later on pad the budget with extra provisions?
“It determines what the RMN gets. The politicians choose.”
TLDM can also choose not to get as what TDM chiefs decided on the SPH…
For the price of around usd160 million per ship, the ones that can fit into the budget based on publicly known prices are HDC2000 and Sigma 92 where Jose Rizal costs usd155 million each (larger than HDC200) while Diponegoro cost usd170 million each (smaller than Sigma 92). Though the Sigma 92 brings a hangar while HDC200 did not.
A side note, RMN can get their ‘dream’ LCS in the form of Sigma 92, from the model displayed it could carry 8 SSM, technically can quadpack ESSM block 2 into 4-12 cells VLS, have space for CAPTAS-2 towed sonar at usd250 million. Though Marhalim di said the hangar was not for a helo….may need to go for sigma 105 route or Jose Rizal
The Ada is everyone’s favourite but at 250 million USD per ship x 8 ships will be 2 billion USD, way in excess of allocated budget.
The current budget is 525 million for 3 ships. If that is the case, 8 ships will be allocated 840 million USD.
If the RMN wants 8 ADA corvettes, it’s still 1.16 billion USD short.
It all boils down to money…
Sorry my mistake, 8 ships on current budget is 1.4 billion USD.
If the RMN wants 8 ADAs, it is still 600 million USD short.
HDC 2000 got hangar as does the Sigma but not for helo storage
RMN need the missiles as none of its warships within five-years’ time will be armed with them. Already the ones in KK are not armed with missiles apart from the submarines.
@Marhalim
“HDC 2000 got hangar”
Thank you for correcting me as I were not able to find any info stating that it got a hangar
@joe
It is possible to get a fully fitted out LMS batch 2 with the current budget if RMN recommend/choose correctly, though there is still a possibility in increasing the allocated budget to get the Ada.
At the least as per what Tom Tom said on usd600 million short, one could just spread it out to 3 RMK and increase the budget to get 8 Ada, though that still less money to spend on more LMS/Kedah down the line. If money is an issue, then just get the Sigma92 or HDC2000 or Dearsan92 but give RMN the proper CMS, weapons and sensors they needed (not what the builder choose like BNS does)
@Azlan
“able to “talk” with other ships and able to “talk” to RMAF MPAs and UASs.”
Are you implying that those ships that are being considered might not have the suitable hardware to communicate with other arial platforms?
MY can not provide defence budget under 2% of GDP. As we experience now, in several years MAF is deteriorate any all 3 branches.
“TLDM can also choose not to get as what TDM chiefs decided on the SPH”
Let there be no confusion or misconception; it was the politicians who decided to scrap the contract; not the army per see. It would have been scrapped no matter what the army said. The politicians would have scrapped the Little Bird contract but the penalties were such.
Very rarely do the armed services by themselves have the needed pull to scrap or cancel anything after a contract has been awarded. I can’t think of any examples but if you can let me know.
Ultimately what the RMN gets is dictated by the budget but the actual design is selected by the politicians after weighing a host of factors.
“it was the politicians who decided to scrap the contract”
With tacit approval from TDM chiefs. They certainly didnt make any noises as it syncs with their preference to get Caesar instead. Still waiting for that tho…
“The politicians would have scrapped the Little Bird contract”
Also with tacit approval from TDM chiefs, but it was ady too late by then.
“Very rarely do the armed services”
Because very rarely did we previously cancel something that was already announced & signed LOI/LOA, and the Armed Forces previous rarely rejected anything that was given even if its not what they wanted. Everything changed with that change of Govt.
“what the RMN gets is dictated by the budget”
Not just TLDM but the entire Armed Forces itself. The 3 main branches cannot be choosy what they wanted when money is insufficient, unless they willing to get less than ideal quantities/kitted out. We can blame the politicians but they too must play with the ball given by the beancounters, at least they are more pliable with what options for the available budget.