SHAH ALAM: Condors Coming Home. Six Condors which had served in Lebanon since early 2007 are coming home. The six vehicles are currently stored at the Beirut port awaiting shipment back to Malaysia as soon as the Defence Ministry can find the logistics company to arrange for their ride.
The tender to find the multi-modal operator to arrange the shipment of the six Condors armed with the twin GPMG turret was published on Oct. 15 and closes on Oct. 22. According to the eperolehan website the six vehicles need to be transported from Beirut, Lebanon to their final destination at the Batu Kantomen Camp at Jalan Ipoh, Kuala Lumpur.
I have no idea what will happened next to these Condors after their return from Lebanon. As previously reported the Army had plans to upgrade them to extend their services lives further but nothing had been finalised so far.
With the expected draw down of the defense budget I am of the opinion that the Army should concentrate on its already delayed Gempita program instead of embarking of the Condor remanufacturing project. Yes the upgrading the Condor may yet gave it a new lease of life but to what extent especially in this trying times?
Several years back I noted that the Army could not afford the AV8/Gempita as its budget were not even big enough for cheaper items including weapons sights and other stuff.
Anyhow with the drawdown of the six Condors it appears the Defence Ministry is getting comfortable with the performance of the nine IAG Guardians ordered for the Malaysian contingent in Lebanon, currently Malbat 850-06. Whether or not it will soon order more Guardians is beyond me at the moment, though it seems likely.
As the UN will reimburse the cost of buying and operating the vehicles in its peacekeeping operations it is likely that the Defence Ministry will be able to justify buying new vehicles for the mission, whether more Guardians or other vehicles. With the government saying that it will only be involved in UN missions these seems likely even with the current tough fiscal environment.
— Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (22)
Hopefully one of them can be preserved in their original UNIFIL condition for the army museum.
IMO the issue about the Condor remanufacturing by Deftech is its huge cost.
" DEFTECH Chief Executive Officer, Lt Col Datuk Amril Samsudin, said the Armour Directorate of the Malaysian Army has indicated that a total of 316 units of RPZ CONDORs needed to be refurbished and upgraded in stages to meet the Royal Armoured Corp's order of battle and would cost about RM10 million per unit. "
RM10 million per unit is more than able to buy a brand new MRAP, something like Singapore's Belrex aka Paramount Marauder costs about 1/2 of that. If that remanufacturing to cost RM10 million per unit, 316 units would push past Rm3 billion, and that is not a prudent thing to spend on something used. I believe a 2nd batch of Gempita of about 200 units can be had for less than USD1 billion as most of the set up costs should have been sunk in the 1st batch. The Gempita 2nd batch while not affordable now, probably can be started in RMK12 (2021-2025)
Some of my opinions on this
https://www.malaysiandefence.com/standard-firearm-the-colt-m4-carbine/#comment-324111
They have no choice but to buy more Guardians, budget from UN willing.
Eventually when they return to Malaysia, having only 9 trucks with an unfamiliar drivetrain would make maintaining them difficult & costly. The OEM might not provide such support with such low quantities or we may have to ship them to IAG service centers. More units would justify local maintenance, repair and overhaul.
@...
For 10mil I expect it to withstand up to STANAG 3 with applique armour and comes with 50 cal RWS!
DRB's proposal is just too much for things that are bought off the shelf. Considering the large numbers of Condors we can re-life, the cost can easily be brought down, but then one would ask what's the purpose of light armoured Condors in today's battlefield.
Perhaps the answer lies in its original role as a battle taxi and not the IFV that we pressed it into TDM service. An update in doctrine can place Gempitas as the motorised offensive spearhead and Condors in the supporting role to ferry troops rapidly from the rear. A quick, lightly armed & armoured battle taxi would only require new engines, suspensions and com gear. Hardly worth 10mil each.
On the condor remanufacturing.
I have quoted a wrong info. The correct price for remanufacturing the condors by deftech was RM5 million per unit. Compare that to the cost of lipanbara which is RM7 million per unit, or the new american J-LTV (USD400 thousand, around RM1.68 million) or the Paramount Marauder (USD700-900 thousand, around RM3-3.8 million).
@joe
Yeah not worth 10m
But DRB will charge 10m
Therein lies the problem of Msia and Defence...
Anyway better to get more Gempita. Nothing wrong with letting the other battalions hoof it on trucks. Any remaining dollars can go to buying more support weapons and weapons carriers.
Geez, I was to say 10 m MYR per unit is very steep. Seriously, do they still need more than 300 considering there are also 250 Adnans?
My take on it is that we can modernise the Condors. But just do a minimum upgrade.
Most important is give it a new engine n change its suspensions.
Can still use it for ESSCOM n border patrols. No need to use brand new vehicles for routine n low intensity conflicts
@Chua
I'm all for more Gempitas but we have to consider the safety of troops coming from rear in support. No matter what, Condors are at least still better protected than softskin trucks or "Humvees" for ferrying troops. An update to their drivetrain & suspensions to keep them running & cost-efficiently serviceable, can extend the useful life of our numerable Condor fleet.
This shouldn't take more that 3mil per vehicle since there is potential discounts if we're to update all 400+ Condors.
Reply
I believe we are down to some 200++ Condors now
Standardization of troops carrier via Gempita is the way forward. Retire the old Condor.
Chua - ''Nothing wrong with letting the other battalions hoof it on trucks.''
True but there are 2 factors to consider : we can't afford the have the Gempita numbers we need and not all roles call for a Gempita; especially in places where patrolling is done mostly on foot or areas where roads are very narrow; where something smaller is more practical. Thus; there appears to be only 2 solutions : either go ahead with the Condor upgrade or buy an off the shelf MRAP [like what has been done for ESSCOM].
The fact remains we still have lots of Condors hulls and these hulls have lots of life left. The question [like always when looking at upgrading/refurbishing aged equipment, is deciding on exactly how much should be spent and whether the amount will provide good return in investment [given the age of the vehicle and its limitations even after an upgrade] or whether buying new is the answer.
joe - ''For 10mil I expect it to withstand up to STANAG 3 with applique armour and comes with 50 cal RWS!''
At the very least, full/all round protection from 7.62mm AP and splinters.Given weight issues [not just stress on the hull but also on the engine and transmission]; there is a limit on how heavily armed and protected a Condor can be. There is also the question of how well protected it should be given the type of roles it's intended to perform. A 12.7mm mount would be useful against light vehicles but a 7.62mm/AGL combo might be more practical; providing direct fire support for dismounted troops.
joe - ''Perhaps the answer lies in its original role as a battle taxi and not the IFV that we pressed it into TDM service.''
Under PERISTA the Condor fulfilled a requirement for a relatively 'cheap' armoured platform to be used in a low threat environment. Not only was finance an issue but we didn't see an urgent need for a better armed and protected vehicle.
joe - ''An update in doctrine can place Gempitas as the motorised offensive spearhead and Condors in the supporting role to ferry troops rapidly from the rear.''
Condors should be used in scenarios that don't call for a Gempita. The main value a Gempita has over a Condor is not only better protection, weapons with a longer reach, better sensors, etc, but also mobility. In many areas where Gempita operates, the Condors will be unable to.