PETALING JAYA: I know many people are against buying second hand weapons for the Armed Forces – we dont want Malaysia to be the dumping grounds for lemons – but I argue its the best option for us.
Instead of spending RM8 billion to develop, test and manufacture a new 8X8 AFV and a few billions more on other important things, we should just asked the US to donate a few hundred Strykers which they are withdrawing from Iraq. The DRB plant in Pekan could be use to refurbish these vehicles with all things Malaysian which may cost us more money but the total bill may not be as high as RM8 billion.
If do not want to go with American things, there are other options of course, every one in Europe are retiring everything from frigates, tanks and APCs. Yes, I remember the Skyhawk debacle but if the programme managers are honest people and the deal are ran handled through the exporting countries defence procurement agencies, we may be able to recapitalise our armed forces with good stuff which could last another 20 years in a shorter time than buying new ones at half the price….
— Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (31)
Hey even our wealthy neighbour singapore bought 2nd hand items, like the Leo2 MBT and all of its submarines, so why not Malaysia?
Last time Malaysia bought 2nd hand item is for the laksamana corvettes, and it is truly money well spent.
So why not buy (not getting it donated) some APC\'s from US/NATO (either the stryker or the M113\'s) and get our local companys refurbish them.
As for the navy and airforce, we could buy 2ndhand frigates from UK and buy the Nakoda ragam\'s from Brunei; the airforce the MB339CK from New Zealand, and in 5 years time hornets from kuwait/australia/canada
Marhalim: why must we buy we can get it for free/lease with us only paying for the refurbishment of the weapons. Of ocurse when we really need to - in the case of ATGM or SAMs, missiles etc.. we can purchase them new ...
I am not sure the US Military want to part with their 8 x8 Stryker following the Iraqi withdrawal.Don't they want keep their Stryker for Afghanistan?
Let's do the rough figures.A new Stryker without the add-ons in 2002 was USD3 million per piece.So probably for a second hand Stryker today the cost would be around USD 1 million. Add another USD 1 miilion for refurbishment and armament, so for 4 x Cavalry Regiments the conservative cost would be about USD 800 million - USD1 billion.
A potentially big saving, but who wants to make the decision?
Marhalim: The US are building new Strykers with V-shaped hulls for Afghanistan, the cost of excess defence articles is cheaper lot less than what you guess-estimate. Even your guess-estimate is cheaper than the AV8 project!
I doubt the Strykers should be considered as a replacement for our wheeled IFV fleet, even as 2nd-hand refurbs. Criticisms of their performance, from a mechanised infantry perspective, (as opposed to the current units which are actually upgrades from non-mechanised formations) should be worth considering.
Whatever the case, the question relies on whether local expertise, both technical and management-wise, can shoulder the task.
Nakhoda ragam no longer available, Algeria already bought them. make more sense to get the excess type 23 frigate that Uk will retire. can get it cheap but the refurbishment cost will be a bomb as these ships have been put through extensive use by the royal navy..thus the money might as well be spend on upgrading the combat system and armament for the first 6 NGPV. two sea rams at USd50 mil, more exocet 40 block 2 and eurotop torpedo (with sonar first lah).
AFAIk new zealand is selling 1/3 of its LAV 25 bought in 1995/96. That could be an option...just my two cents
Brother, need to change the whole mind set in the Armed Forces leadership. They need to engage in a real intellectual discourse on military and security issues rather than behaving like warlords walking around look important but fail miserably in ensuring the real need to develop Malaysian Armed Forces and as it is now all "cha cha marba"
Selamat Hari Raya.....we don't really need to look for second hand items if 'they' are sincere and see the bigger picture and the over aching principles and above all the national interests. Good luck brother...
Marhalim: Selamat Hari Raya....you should know better, you were once.....
The Laksamana's were never delivered to Iraq so are technically not '2nd hand'. What we should have got years ago were surplus German or Dutch Leopards 2's.
If i'm not mistaken the Stryker armor is a close guarded secret. I doubt that Uncle Sam will sell it to us.
Marhalim: They are building new Strykers with V-shaped hulls, so perhaps we can the first gen Strykers...
Yes Marhalim, I may agree with you about this matter. But does the US will really give us their Stryker and for what reason? But for aircraft, I don't think buying something 2nd hand would be useful. I still believe for aircraft, more MKMs or procure the Super Hornet or the Gripen is the best choice. No way for 2nd hand aircraft because we already had the experience with the purchase of Skyhawk.
For the next Malaysian Plan, although only RM 8 Billion is allocated for defense, but I am quite not sure because the wishlist of the armed forces is too long. I guess, unpredictable thing will happen like those procurement of the Scorpene, Sukhoi, PT-91 all are off original budget which are allocated for the then defense budget.
With the Navy emerging needs of more NGPV a.k.a LCS a.k.a SGPV, 3 LHD platform, more frigate and etc while the air force really need more fighter aircraft to replace the aging MIGs fleets, AEWC platform, transport aircraft and etc and not to forget the army, new APC, more artillery, mid-range SAMs and so-on, the budget is just not enough at all. Maybe we will see unpredictable procurement in the next 5 years. Let say the miniature Dokdo platform, or Super Hornet, who knows?
I agree with the purchase of 2nd hand arms and asset.. BUT I think it\'s time for us to study, do more research and try to develop if not all, part of our present and purchased defence asset. Without research, we could go forward..we can\'t advance if we keep on being a user instead of technology provider, inventor and supplier. We have a lot of brains, i.e. (potential researchers turn out from 1000 of univ graduates who r also commissioned ROTU young officers in the field of science , technology and engineering) and research institutes (STRIDE), univ dedicated for defence (UPNM) other local and private univ and with the collaboration of the local defence industry and the armed forces, I believe we can have a very well dedicated and large scale defence research programme. It might take 20-30 years before we can even produced a wholly working weapon or system.
Marhalim: Yes I agree that we do a lot of soul thinking and study first before embarking on a procurement drive. My suggestions is for the up-coming RMK10, I know its wishful thinking what I am suggesting is the next best thing of course, we should first do a careful defence review which lay the strategic outlook for the next 30 years which would be the blue print for our defence needs and guide our procurement policies, At the moment, it is more like your normal monthly sundry purchases....
Salam 1Malaysia...
The first batch of subs bought by Singapore were second hand, but their latest batch of subs are brand new..same thing goes to our Laksamana class corvettes..we bought them brand new. Even though those ships were originally built for the Iraqi Navy.
Marhalim: All of the Singapore subs were second hand ones...