SHAH ALAM: Stricter US export regulations and the conflict in Ukraine are among the reasons for the late delivery of the four leased Black Hawk helicopters, Parliament was told yesterday. Deputy Defence Minister Adly Zahari said these were the reasons given by Aerotree Defence & Services Sdn Bhd for the delays in delivering the helicopters.
From the Star:
“The war in Ukraine caused disruption in the supply chain and the approval process from US regulators has been tightened for the modernisation of technical specifications and the integration of avionics systems on a Black Hawk UH-60A aircraft.
“The work programme timeline and expected delivery of Black Hawk UH-60A aircraft to Malaysia has been revised and updated by Slovak Training Academy and all parties involved, based on the current supply chain condition and expected approval time from US regulators,” said Adly.
He said Putrajaya views the late delivery of helicopters seriously, as it could negatively impact the helicopter operations of the Malaysian Army Aviation unit.
“As outlined in the contract, if there were any delays in the delivery of the helicopters, the government can impose late fines over delays caused by the company.
“But, if the company still fails to deliver according to the agreed dates, the ministry can cancel this acquisition and reopen the tender, as mentioned in the contract,” said Adly.
I would have posted this yesterday, but the Star had erroneously posted the story quoting DS Mohamad Hassan as the Defence Minister, even though the answer was by Adly. The current Malaysian Defence Minister is to DS Khaled Nordin. Even the amended copy still has Mohamad on it (Paragraph 7).
It appears that the ministry is still hoping to get the helicopters despite the delays. Malaysian Defence was the first to highlight the head winds on the Black Hawk helicopters.
— Malaysian Defence
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I dunno about other folks here but I am not enamoured or ga-ga over helicopters. I likened them to Nissan N200 or Daihatsu GrandMax mini vans, great to scoot and make deliveries.
And here we are still stuck when we are just leasing (not owning) them!
I also dunno who are the Tan Sis in Aerotree but please, just pull the plug and get another helicopter type. It is just a helicopter, not an F15EX or F35.
* I am just fed-up why we still end up with nincompoops to head MinDef etc. Be decisive for once…
Taib – ”I dunno about other folks here but I am not enamoured or ga-ga over helicopters.”
You don’t have to be ‘ga-ga” over them but do tell us that we don’t need them and that there’s an alternative.
Taib – ”I am just fed-up why we still end up with nincompoops to head MinDef etc. Be decisive for once”
Only the government can make final decisions. MINDEF [and the Defence Minister] recommends and lobbies – as you well know – but the ultimate decision is not in its hands.
lmao the army isnt exactly thrilled with these helo especially as they’re leased. they wanted their own medium helo since nuri is retired and they didn’t have anything else except A109 and that glorified flying egg
dundun,
Actually the army was/is looking forward to the Blackhawks as it badly needs some medium lift platforms; even if leased; until such a time or gets its own platforms.
Mindef is too lenient in this matter. Just cancel the contract & fine the company. Find another supplier is rhat so hard to do? Unless it already have certain arrangements/offsets bla bla. Mindef should be firm because this is the matter of national security. We should not compromise.
can’t we get others heli from other countries, why must get from u.s,pentagon don’t keen on selling nor leasing to us. we got our migs and su from Russia,why don’t buy from them
‘an alternative’.(Azlan)
Well we can get more AW139/149/169/189s for one. Or buy/lease from Turkiye/Poland/S. Korea/Russia or even India.
I am not saying we don’t need helicopters but these are basically just transports. Like I said nothing more than a flying Daihatsu minivan.
Pinoy buys 32 Blackhawk
Indonesia buys 24 Blackhawk
Malaysia leases 4 and delivery has been delayed
Such a sorry state of affair in our military procurement
@dundun
As Marhalim mentioned, TDM wanted Blackhawks and (supposedly) they are getting Blackhawks. Whether lease or own, its something they have to compromise with the little money they allocated for medium lifters. If they wanted to buy en masse they should defer other plans for it.
Russia is under sanctions, we cannot buy anything from them.
@Qamarul
If the explanation is true and accurate, its not so much the fault the vendor but rather its USA approval that is delaying and waiting for parts on the upgrading. In such case, it wouldnt have mattered had we gone another vendor, likely will also face the same problem & delay.
“Russia is under sanctions, we cannot buy anything from them.”
Indeed and any country that tries to deal with them in any other ways, are risk being sanctioned as well. Recently a China consumer tech product company was sanctioned from US sales bcoz they indirectly were selling in Russia thru middlemen.
@Hassan Kamal
Where is the evidence good ol’ Uncle Sam is not willing to sell things to us? The cock up isnt from their side, its ours…
You cannot get approval when you dont apply for it…
“pentagon don’t keen on selling nor leasing to us. we got our migs and su from Russia,why don’t buy from them”
Or because our goverment likes usual never gave enough funding for our military procurement
Taib – “‘an alternative”
Was referring to an alternative to helicopters.
Taib – “I am not saying we don’t need helicopters but these are basically just transports”
They do SAR, mercy flights, transport, etc.
Marhalim,
Yes, I was really curious if the company actually received or applied for U.S. approval.
Hassan,
America is always willing to sell to us but we judt have to agree to their conditions. It’s not only them but everyone who sets conditions; Singapore for a while faced a Swedish ban because it re-exported RBS-70s to Bahrain and gave Carl Gustavs to a Khmer resistance group.
Haiqal,
Incorrect. They do but like everyone else have conditions and laws a buyer has to adhere to.
Hassan – ”“pentagon don’t keen on selling nor leasing to us. ”
Hassan – ”why don’t buy from them”’
Not to say that any of us are experts here but if you really know what you’re on about; you’ll know that the Americans have been trying hard to sell us stuff.
You’ll also know that buying from Russia is not politically palatable and even a plan to get Metis reloads was vetoed by the decision makers.
Abuyane – ”Such a sorry state of affair in our military procurement”
Yes but it has zero reference to the examples you gave about what others are doing. Also, the PN still has ships which were laid down in the 19 40’s and 50’s and armoured vehicles from the 1960’s. Does this mean that it’s also a ”sorry state of affair in our military procurement” in AFP procurement?
Azlan “Not to say that any of us are experts here but if you really know what you’re on about; you’ll know that the Americans have been trying hard to sell us stuff.”
On a personal observation while the civil service to civil service relationships between us and uncle Sam seems strong the same couldn’t be said with politicians to politician relationship.
Our politicians unlike our Southern neighbours hardly goes there (preferring mother England instead) nor we hire any kind of lobbyists there nor make politically correct statement from uncle Sam point of view.
So while the like of pentagon and lockmart may try hard to sell us stuff, the same couldn’t be said about their Congressman and senator who may try to get a hard bargain.
@Zaft
“their Congressman and senator who may try to get a hard bargain”
Their politicians arent trying to get bargain, they dont need to as they set a price and everyone must follow. Rather their politicians are playing the global game of making sure their not arming the wrong side, their mil tech wont fall into ‘other’ hands, and there is no repercussion to the US, this is the reason why foreign sales needs Congress approval. It seems like even upgrades on old Blackhawk for leasing as well which is a bit overbearing.
The main stumbling block here is ITAR
and the biggest issue for ITAR is the ownership of those blackhawks.
If the blackhawks are to be fully owned by the Malaysian military/government, then there will be no issue to approve the transfer.
but in this case, the blackhawks will be owned by a private entity that is fully owned by foreigners of a country that is not a major US ally, and there is a very big risk that the helicopters can be transferred to unauthorized third party without US government consent.
So just scrap the lease contract, KEMENTAH directly go to the current owners of those blackhawks and buy them outright. That would solve most of the issues right away.
If we are to cancel the contract, it is better for the ministry to request Black Hawks from the US Government’s Excess Defence Articles, it will be given to us for free and if we asked, they could also pay for the upgrades and overhaul…
@cheekuchai
I am assuming when the lease tender was given its to companies that would have been in possession (directly or indirectly) of these choppers their offering. Like if I rent a car from Avis I am expecting they would have the car ready for me to take and not just scrambling to find one when I make a booking. Of course thats presuming we gave the tender to a proper company that have the goods of course…
And there are many issues with your solution, namely that the budget is under OP not DE meaning its not meant for outright buys otherwise the beancounters will hiss a fit. Another as Marhalim said, why get from 3rd party when originator USA has plenty and their also just letting go more modern Lima Blackhawks for sales? The A version is many generations older.
The beancounters never wanted the blackhawk in the first place. PUTD could had save themselves the trouble and the pain if they had just go with the beancounters preferred options.
The problem is what the beancounters want cannot meet TDM requirements (no underslung capability). Its something that past Nuris do perform often so its a feature which TDM will not give away.
Never mess around with US export approval. You might think that Blackhawks are just air taxis, but the US thinks differently. When HK reverted back to China, the HK police was forced to send its Blackhawks back to the US. Looks like somebody didn’t do their homework.
Need to find out how did an inexperience vendor could have gone thru tender process and gotten selected. Was it PUTD/decisionmakers failure to ensure due diligence that the vendor had done due diligence to ensure they gotten all the necessary USA approvals?
The company which got the leasing deal is an experienced player lah…