SHAH ALAM: In September, Malaysian Defence wrote about tenders for the procurement of support vehicles and firearms for the Army. The support vehicles being sought are air-defence command trucks and howitzer towers. As for the firearms, the Army wants more 9mm pistols, heavy machine guns, light machine guns, mortars (complete set), anti-materiel rifles and automatic grenade launchers.
Five air defence command three tonnes truck is being sought and four bidders have qualified for the tender. The highest was RM4.95 million, RM4.47 million, RM4.365 million and lowest RM4.275 million. As a three tonne truck usually costs around RM400,000, I am guessing the air command-and-control system costs around RM1 million each.
As the gun tower tender is still open, I will update this post to include the bid prices when it is published in Eperolehan.
Eighty-six 12.7mm heavy machine gun is being sought and the indicative price is RM15.5 million. Fourteen bidders have qualified for the tender with the lowest price at RM14.114 million and the highest RM14.634 million.
As for the 18 81mm mortar with fire control system and 4X4 truck (complete set) three bids had qualified with the lowest at RM29.682 million, RM30.45 million and RM30.6 million.
Only one bidder took part in the tender for the 12.7mm anti-materiel sniper rifle of which 19 is being sought with an indicative price of RM7.2 million. The sole bid is RM7 million plus change.
Two hundred and ten 5.56mm light machine guns are being sought with an estimated price of RM21 million. The Army currently operates various versions of the FN Minimi 5.56mm LMG. Small numbers of the HK11E LMG remained in service with RS units though. Eleven bidders have qualified for the tender with the lowest price RM10.456 million and the highest RM26 million.
Will the Army choose the lowest bid then? My guess is as good as yours. That said the Army is very conservative, like its sister services and it is likely the chosen LMG will be the same one it has been using. Even if a cheaper, unlicensed copy is available from another manufacturer.
The tender for the 1,500 9mm pistol attracted twelve bids with the lowest price set at RM13.4 million and the highest RM17.2 million. Interestingly, seven bids are the same price of RM16.2 million while five more were separated by a few hundred thousand only. The Glock 19 pistol starts as the favourite as it is the prolific in the Army’s inventory now. That said I was told at DSA 2024 that the Glock could not meet the current demand of its pistols now (due to the war in Ukraine).
As for the 75 AGL, 10 bids have qualified with the lowest bid at RM12.487.500 million and highest at RM13.875 million. The other bids are also very close to each with two bids coming in at the same exact price of RM12.487.530 million.
By the way, the tender for the fourty Integrated Fire Control System published earlier had been cancelled shortly after it was published here. A new tender was published a week later. Checking on the new specifications, it showed that the number of IFCS units being sought is now 29 compared to 40 from the cancelled tender. The indicative price is RM40.2 million, same as the cancelled one. I am guessing that potential bidders had told the Army that they could only supply 29 units of the IFCS for the estimated cost hence the cancellation of the original tender. The IFCS is meant for Royal Artillery units operating the Denel G5 155mm and the 105mm pack howitzers.
— Malaysian Defence
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There was some mention of Skyguard in a previous post. Each Skyguard controls 4 [not 2] GDFs. Skyguard is also a bit dated; was easily jammed by a EW pod fitted to a Vulcan in 1982 and on a number of occasions our didn’t fare well against EW pods fitted to RAAF F-111s during FPDA exercises. The replacement should be mobile and at minimum it need to be 30mm to have the needed range and bang. Should also be organic to units; not deployed on an ad hoc basis as is the case now. Decentralisation and flexibility …
The tender for the G-5s is interesting. For many years the G-5s had a Thales AS2000 [formerly South African] and a Gunzen hand held computer.
Udang Galah.. you bring back my memories of yesteryear with one of those Malaysian army slang words Marhalim
Quite heavy yet rugged enough with strong impact of firepower for section level..
On the M2 QCB
Form the quotes, seems the cost of one is around USD38k
US Army cost of one is around 12-15k, but they buy in batches of hundreds a time.
Currently we have M2s from the usual arsenals from US, UK and Belgium, plus those made in Korea (on KIFVs), made in China (on LMS) and latest from Canik Turkiye.
Of course we could get them as cheap as the US ones but it must done via FMS.
RMAF passed on their GDFs to the Army, I was told that they found it very maintenance extensive and expensive.
latest upgraded skyguard can control 4 guns
original ones just 2
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GZC3Nx8akAAazYk.jpg
AFAIK the Oerlikons was always been operated by 31 RAD GAPU, not by TUDM.
Yes they are previously based in Kem Sungai Besi, now moved to Kajang.
RS still maintain a sizsble stock of these udang galah as they drew their stocks from hands me down regular army ones. As they’re becoming regular unit themselves (and that they’re transitioning to BIS) it’s logical to increase their MG firepower to compensate the reduction in their rifle strength
Pictures of the G5s at the recent LKT showed they not fitted with any targeting sights. That said those G5s were used for direct fire.
As far as I know; Skyguard can “control” 1,2,3 or 4 but in our case did we even get enough. skyguards to have a ratio of 1 to 2?
I had no idea the RMAF even had any GDFs. On HMGs; can’t they be bought via a direct commercial sale as opposed to FMS one?
BTW I think Manroy was bought by FN.
Anyone know why we won’t buy more underbarrel grenade launcher for our standard issue M4 rifle to replace the old M16 version
“Will the Army choose the lowest bid then?”
Is it TDM that has the final decision actually? Or the beancounters? Many said quite a number ATM equipment werent of their decision, so its odd if they do have final say why not cancel those they dont want.
Sorry Marhalim. What do you mean by sights?They al have sights: for indirect and direct fire. Without sights they would not have been able to perform direct fire or fire on open sights.
The indirect FCS.
Most things are chosen by the Army especially when it comes to small numbers of firearms. As long it is under budget, the bean counters will not say much about such stuff as firearms. Only when they decide to replace something like the M4 across the Army then others will get involved/
I have not asked but soon.
Yes Manroy is under FN now. Most of the HMGs are bought via direct commercial sales and many are bundled up in vehicle procurement, ie Pendekar and the Panthera. I was suggesting FMS so we can get the USGI price for them.
Meaning RAD has no capability for indirect fire on the G5s or the pack howitzers?
No, it must be done manually which is slower and less precise. With the IFCS will be much faster and more precise, especially at long ranges.
Hi Marhalim, On a different topic, how are our Malaysian Peacekeepers in Lebanon? There is nothing in the media and our government has not given us any update of peacekeepers since Israel’s actions. I m sure their roles are very much different (eg more humanitarian due to war?, etc etc) and in a war footing environment. Lets hope they are all safe while performing their duties
AFAIK they are now in the bomb shelters if they are not on duty. I was told that our peacekeepers camps are much further away from areas which are know being bombed by Israel. Some peacekeepers are of course on duty with UNIFIL hq in Beirut which is more susceptible to attacks from Israel.
Hasnan – ”Meaning RAD has no capability for indirect fire on the G5s or the pack howitzers?”
If such a capability was lacking the G-5 and Model 56 would not be called ”howitzers”. There are integral sights.
Some of the Unfil members, afaik Indon peacekeepers were injured in one of the air raids. With the situation going towards hell we should petition to scram out of the country ASAP.
We must abide by the rules of deployment one of which we cannot leave the country unilatteraly.
Does the Malbat in Lubnan armed with any LAW or Atgms?
” did we even get enough skyguards to have a ratio of 1 to 2? ”
Yes we did.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Skyguard_radar_of_Malaysian_Army_in_display_in_AKM_Pahang_2022.jpg
Also you can see on the datasheet –
” keupayaan – mengawal 2 unit meriam 35mm oerlikon ”
” I had no idea the RMAF even had any GDFs ”
TUDM never operated any GDFs.
It was one of the former PTUs who told me about the cost of maintaining Oerlikons and his decision to pass them over to the Army. Whether or not it was always control by Army but paid for by RMAF, I have no idea.
AFAIK, no. It maybe possible that they are equipped with NLAW as we have not seen any live firing all this while, locally, despite seeing the training version in open days etc. We know that Eryx were bought for the Bosnia mission.
what exactly are we gonna fire those NLAW/ATGM at? Merkava?
we were in lubnan for peacekeeping. It’s different than in bosnia where we were more directly involved with the fighting
… – ”Yes we did.”
Based on what; apart from the link you send? That would mean us having bought 14 Skyguards; we didn’t. As far as know each Skyguard can ”control” up to 4 guns; even the older Super Fledermus [which we never bought] could ”control” 4 BOFIs. I also recall ads ADJ use to run in the late 1980’s showing a firing position comprising 4 guns and one Skyguard. Also, the Argies [If I recall correctly from a book I read] deployed 5/6 Skyguards along with 17 GDFs to the Malvinas; insufficient for a 1-2 ratio.
in lieu of anything else, an ATGW is good enough.
dundun – ”we were in lubnan for peacekeeping”
As we were in the Congo, ex-Yugoslavia, Namibia and Cambodia. Doesn’t mean we will not take certain measures to cater for unexpected contingencies. In the ex-Yugoslavia we got Eryx because of fears the Bosnian Serbs might attack the UN. I have no idea if the contingent in Lebanon has ATGWs but it would not be surprising if it did; ”peacekeeping” can easily turn into something else.
dundun – ”where we were more directly involved with the fighting”
How were we ”more directly involved with the fighting”? We were more likely to be exposed to danger but that’s not ”more directly involved with the fighting” and if things go further rat shit in Lebanon; we might be in a dicey situation. We more ”directly involved with the fighting” in the Congo; against the Congolese army, Katangese [mercenaries and locals] and others.
I have written details on the RAD31 equipment list, not posting it here
As for Argentinian deployment to Falklands. UK captured and bought back only non-damaged and servicable skyguard radars.
GADA 601 was mobilised to Comodoro Rivadavia, along the Patagonian coast, on 12 April. The equipment was loaded at the naval base of Mar del Plata on board the cargo ship Córdoba, bound for Puerto Deseado. As the ship was damaged whilst at anchor, the artillery, missiles systems and vehicles were airlifted to Comodoro Rivadavia. A battery comprising a Roland-2 missile unit, a Skyguard radar and two 35 mm Oerlikon twin cannons was left behind to provide air defence for the mainland air bases of Puerto San Julián and Río Gallegos. The remainder of the troops and their materiel finally crossed to the Islands by air between 12 April and 24 April. The troops were deployed in three batteries (A, B and C), with three sections each, plus AADA 602 with a Roland-2 launcher. Each section manned two twin Oerlikon-Contraves guns controlled by a Skyguard radar.
1 battery of our Oerlikons has been upgraded to fire AHEAD proximity fused rounds
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GZ2RrWUaAAE0r56.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GZ2RvxfaoAA9Z9X.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GZ2R1AjaYAATK1M.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GZ2R3rDbEAAqxsS.jpg
… “I have written details on the RAD31 equipment list, not posting it here”
Wasn’t expecting you to post it here. The GDFs equip 31 and 32 Regiments. 32 Regiment also operated Igla. We did not order 14 Skyguards, or in a quantity enough to issue then on a 1 to 2 ratio, to GDFs.
The captured GDFs equipped a TA unit and Skyguard also equipped the RAF’s Police who used it to monitor flight level compliance. The work on the [the Argie perspective] to read is Hasting’s “The Fight For The Malvinas”.
Are these short range anti aircraft guns really effective? Waste of money maintaining them.
“which we cannot leave the country unilatteraly.”
UN did not say that a 3rd nation’s airforce would come carpet bombing in vengeance that would take them as collateral damage when assigning that job to our nation, didnt they? Situation has changed and so must a decision. The USA scrammed from Somalia as soon as they can after Black Hawk Down, they didnt need to wait for UN approval. As I said before, the Lebs are no longer happy of us here, the Israeli dont care if we become collateral damage in their widening war, and we have no direct business being ‘000 km from homeland, we dont need new martyrs to stop poking our noses in this shitshow anymore.
@Kamal
“Does the Malbat in Lubnan armed with any LAW or Atgms?”
What good will ATGMS do against IAF Falcons & Strike Eagles armed with precision muntions?
US was in Somalia outside the UN Peacekeeping mandate.
Hasnan,
Why not do your own research instead of asking obvious questions? If they’re not “effective then why pray tell as they operated in large numbers worldwide?
With the right ammo, right fire direction and early warning; they are very “effective.
On another issue the Americans did not
“scrammed from Somalia as soon as they can after Black Hawk Down” sounds dramatic but embellished. It took a while and although it had involvement with the UN was not under the UN, Task Force Ranger which was stuck at Bakara Market wasn’t under UN command. Also, it was not only the U.S. which
“scrammed” but many other countries.
Last but not leas; as mentioned, before; despite incidents the locals are not “no longer happy of us here”. Sounds sensational but not true. The incidents were in areas where our troops are not based and is hardly indicative of sentiments as a whole; in areas where they’re based; ties are good for the very simple reason that our troops; like others; engage with the local community.
The Battle of Magadishu or Bakara Market was in October 1993. The U.S. and others only started withdrawing in March the following year due to failures to meet objectives,caused by Somali infighting and other issues. The last commander of the remaining UN troops was a Malaysian General. The final pullout took place in March 1995. An international naval effort, including one of the Saktis got everyone out.
The key difference with Somalia and Lebanon is that there is political intent of the part of the international community for UNIFIL to stay and none of the participating countries are talking about pulling out. There is also the fact that in contrast to UNISOM in Somalia, UNIFIL has a better relationship with local communities and despite being highly flawed, there is a functioning government in Lebanon. UNIFIL also has been exposed to great danger before,in 1996 during Israel’s Grapes of Wrath and in 2006.
BTW in the past we openly declared that if things when bad, we might pull out.
It must be noted that we send the peacekeepers to Lebanon in 2006 following the Israeli incursions into the country one year earlier.
Correction on my part
The GDFs are operated by the 31st and 33rd Artillery Regiments. The latter also operated Igla.
@ azlan
Your previous info is correct.
3 batteries worth of GDF with 31 RAD GAPU, 1 battery worth of GDF with 32 RAD GAPU.
31 RAD are equipped with 35mm GDF and shoulder-fired iglas
32 RAD GAPU has 35mm GDF, rapidranger starstreaks, LML NG starstreaks, FN-6 & shoulder-fired iglas.
33 RAD GAPU operates the Djigit twin launcher IGLAs
34 RAD GAPU with JERNAS
361 bateri Anza MkII
For 32 RAD GAPU, one of its batteries this year alone has been seen on different exercises operating with 35mm GDF oerlikon, Igla, FN-6 and Rapidranger starstreaks + Ground Master 200 radar. So not sure how the equipment are allocated in 32 RAD GAPU.
Since we don’t have a layered air defence system, there is no reason for enemy fighters to fly low. These anti air guns are only good for shooting things coming at them to blow them up.
Thats my research.
Hasnan “Thats my research”
Well you need to improve on your “research”. Aircraft will fly low; depending on terrain, the type of target, etc. Also, for certain types of targets, a gun is more useful and a cannon shell is cheaper and can’t be jammed. Did your “research” tell your this?
… “Your previous info is correct”
The unit which operated the GDF also operated Igla.
Hasnan “Since we don’t have a layered air defence system”
We have VSHORADs, SHORADS and AA guns. That is “layered”. What we don’t have is a fully layered IADS and a large one.
… “So not sure how the equipment are allocated in 32 RAD GAPU”
On an ad hoc basis due to lack of numbers. As they’ve always been.
… “3 batteries worth of GDF with 31 RAD GAPU, 1 battery worth of GDF with 32 RAD GAPU.”
We bought 28. A battery has 4 guns. As far as I know 31st and 33rd Artillery Regiments operate the GDF. Igla was operated by 33rd Artillery Regiment.
Are you certain that 32nd Artillery Regiment operates the FN6s?
… “32 RAD GAPU has 35mm GDF, rapidranger starstreaks, LML NG starstreaks, FN-6 & shoulder-fired iglas”
A lot of stuff for one Regiment. I was under the impression that one unit operated Igla, 33rd Royal Artillery.
The Giraffes BTW used to be with the Bofis but were later assigned to the Igla unit. VERA also, unless mistaken, a Royal Artillery asset.
“A battery has 4 guns”
I believe a battery consists of 6 guns, but they have deployed with a mix of 4 guns and igla.
“31st and 33rd Artillery Regiments operate the GDF”
Not seen any pics of GDF with 33 RAD, but there are recent 32 RAD exercise with GDF + igla.
” 32nd Artillery Regiment operates the FN6s ”
Yes, with a few pics in my archives.
… “I believe a battery consists of 6 guns”
Artillery batteries yes.
A 6 gun battery with Skyguard is too unwieldy. Especially if it requires a Skyguard for every pair of guns; it doesn’t.
for 32 RAD, truth is stranger than fiction i know
As for the VERA E, it is an enigma for me as there is so little said about the system, and even what unit that uses it, but i have encountered the system many times before doing highway march on North-South Highway, with their distinctive TATRA support trucks.
The skyguard when towed is easily mistaken for a large genset as its tracking and fire control radar is folded inside the cabin. Usually identifiable by the distinctive wheels. 3 skyguard per battery is not “unwieldy” IMO.
BTW a picture confirms that the Skyguard FCR can be used to control 3 GDF, even if normally, and in GAPU they use to control 2 GDF. Advantage of 2 GDF to 1 skyguard FCR is that per battery it can target 3 hostiles at the same time. If 3 GDF to 1 skyguard FCR, then 3 guns simultaneously would shoot at 1 target, probably overkill in most situations.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GaBAKr9bwAAMXgJ.jpg
pic credit to amiruddinarif on X
… “3 skyguard per battery is not “unwieldy” IMO.”
6 guns; 3 Skyguards and the towing and ammo vehicles is a lot. We only bought 28 guns. If as you say there are 6 guns in battery it would mean 18 guns per regiment…. We only bought 28; each regiment has 3 batteries of 4 guns each; divided into a pair of troops with 2 guns each.
… “BTW a picture confirms”
I did tell guy that Skyguard can control 4 guns; that even the older Super Fledemous could control 4 BOFIS; that we didn’t get the 14 Skyguards we would have needed to issue then.at a ratio of 1 to 2 and ADJ ran ads in the late 1980’s showing 4 guns to a Skyguard.
— “If 3 GDF to 1 skyguard FCR, then 3 guns simultaneously would shoot at 1 target, probably overkill in most situations”
Its not 4 guns concurrently aiming at one target but 4 guns aiming at a bunch of targets.
… “normally, and in GAPU they use to control 2 GDF”
Are you really certain it do you just think you are? There is no “normally” just what is needed according to the tactical situation. On the Giraffes not sure if they’re still operational but we originally got them for the BOFIs and they were later paired with Igla.
… “. Advantage of 2 GDF to 1 skyguard FCR is that per battery it can target 3 hostiles at the same Tim
But that’s dependent on the “hostiles” flying in the sane general area and for there to be a window of opportunity which can brief or/and limited because of buildings, trees and hills. Its for this reason that I’m a firm believer of placing MANPADs on buildings.
… “1 battery of our Oerlikons has been upgraded to fire AHEAD proximity fused rounds”
Surprising given the costs. Like Bofor’s 3P; AHEAD is intended to create a curtain of steel so to speak for a target to fly through. Sane reasoning behind WW2 flak who didn’t aim the target per see but in front of the target. The 3 most important points are early warning; fire direction; the right ammo and ROF.
Are there any sources on the AHEAD thing? The links you posted are of GDFs. One link showed ammo; are those AHEAD?
If you are into the technical details, even looking at the gun barrel you can know if the GDF system can fire AHEAD ammo or not. Not going out of my way to teach those basic details to you.
Also if you are into technical details, you know the difference between the giraffe (which is a search radar) and the skyguard (which is a fire control radar) and their different functions.
… – “Not going out of my way to teach those basic details to you”
Heavens forbid. Hell would freeze.
… – “if you are into technical details, you know the difference between the giraffe (which is a search radar) and the skyguard (which is a fire control radar) and their different functions.”
Thanks awfully for the education but how does this change the fact that we got them for the BOFIs? Who said they weren’t radars? Also, since you’re such an erudite, you’ll no doubt be aware that the BOFIs had an integral “Optronic Fire control Instrument”.
If your”re finished with your rent/tantrum; do you actually have a link which indicates we have AHEAD? A simple question.
Speaking about air defence, anyone can confirm about Malaysia buying Anza 3 Manpads from Pakistan
First, who said we are buying the missiles.