KUALA LUMPUR: I just got back from Gemas for a two-day visit to Kem Sirajuddin for the Army media day 2008. The event was supposed to be held in late February but delayed due to the elections.
Anyhow, this was the biggest bash for the media by the armed forces not only terms of numbers but the breadth of weapon Blhandling experience. For the first time, the Malaysian media personnel and some others, were given the chance to fire not only the Steyr and M16s. but also the GPMG,Minimi, Browning Ma Deuce. the AGL, the 203, LAW90. RPG amd gasp! the Carl Gustaf. No M4s though as they only got a small batch only and its still undergoing testing prior to issuance to front-line units.
Every one had a nice time shooting these weapons and almost the same people lined up behind two Adnans to fire the 25mm Bushmaster and the Browning. Not to be outdone, two G-Wagens were brought in to the firing line which allowed most of us to have another around pn the Browning and the AGL.
Before the shooting line was opened, a PT91M duly took the honours to fire at targets across the valley while another three fire their Brownings across the same area while two fired their smoke and gremades. They were followed by two Sibmas which duly fired several rounds from their 90mm cannons while the Adnans also showed up firing their cannons, machine guns and grenade launchers.
Was it fun? Of course, its not every day in Malaysia you got the chance to fire the RPG-7! As for me, I did not manage to get my hands on the Carl Gustaf as the rounds were limited but I fired everything else. The only bad thing about the whole experience were the fact that most of the arms were meant for people who uses their right eye to aim.
I am a right hander but left eye dominant. So when it comes to shooting long arms, I have to place the gun on mu left shoulder, only then I could aim correctly. As I did not want to miss the opportunity, I fired most of the weapons basically without aiming. The only time I did use my left eye to aim, on the Minimi, I got hit by spent rounds which blistered my right wrist and got hit in the face and right knuckle. Ah, well..
Of course, enjoy the video above of the PT91M now officially called the Pendekar. All of the tanks will be in country by year end and expected to be fully operational by Army Day next year. Perhaps by that time, they will calm down enough to allow Malaysian Defence to fire pull the trigger on the Sagem FCS.
I have edited this post to add the Sibmas and Adnan video as well. We did not get the chance to fire the guns on the Sibmas but the Bushmaster trigger on the Adnan was a tad uncomfortable for me. Perhaps it was done deliberately so the gunner wont ride the trigger too long but it sure make it harder to get a good grip on the target especially when the other side is also firing back. Thats my opinion anyway but the Ma Deuce reputation to me is highly deserving.
–Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (31)
wow, i envy u. so lucky. i wish i could have the same opportunity. btw,whats the status of M4 actually? i ve read comments on the net and watched future weapons programs, most of the comments were negative judging by the performance in afghanistan and iraq. in addition,tests conducted by the us army for its special op rifle replacements resulted over 880 stoppages compare to its competitor which only experienced around 200+ stoppages. it is almost 4 times than it competitors. if this is true,which i strongly believe, i have doubt the m4 is the best rifle available for our front liners. how could a proven failure be chosen for our steyr replacement program?
The first batch of M4s are in town but have yet to be issued to front line units. We are all very concern about the selection of the Black Rilfe but the army I believed is using this opportunity to get what they want. It is the only thing that they have some control over compared to the other assets. One weak excuse given during the Army Media Day was that the M4 being a carbine was well suited for mounted warfare ie good for our mechanised brigades. I politely pointed out that the Steyr being a bullpup had a 20 inch barrel and still fit easily into the Adnan but the point was not noted by my host.
I think M4 is problematic. It is accurate, no doubt, but reliability is the issue. They should choose HK416 instead, which is still identical to M4 but with some important improvement made by German engineers. The rest of the world are moving to introduce piston system instead of direct gas pressure system for their rifles which is proven to be more reliable. H&K with HK416 and G36, FN with SCAR, Bushmaster with MASADA/ACR and XCR, Belgium with F2000, Mexico with FX05, Singapore with SAR 21, French with Famas, all these rifles are piston operated rifles. These countries chose piston operated rifles for their respective Future Soldiers programs. Even the US army is beginning to switch to this piston operation for its Future Soldier program and if I am not mistaken, they will stop the production of M4 in near future. The minister said the M4 will be produced under license within the country and for export as well. I doubt the potential for exports since more and more countries are moving to introduce the piston operated rifles into their services. So why we are the only country that seem to step backwards in term of rifle selection while the rest of the world starts to switch to piston. Even our neighbours Indonesia and the most capable Singapore use this type of operation for their rifles.
Thanks to you moderator for publishing my comments. Thanks for sharing some information. Btw, all my comments are my personal view based on the facts I am able to get. So,I hope we can share and exchange information or views on this matter regarding our defence.
On the HK416, it was tested locally by the PASKAU together with SWISS Arms SG552 and the Swiss weapon won! The 552 is also according to the Swiss Arms rep I met in Singapore is also selectively issued to US Socom units.
BTW, each of the Swiss gun is prices around RM7,000 which is of course the same price of the M4 which we are buying, which is way too much since Uncle Sam paid around USD1,000 (we could argue about the price for ever, but after checking commercial and USGI contract prices, I decided to use USD1,000 figure as my benchmark).
The Swiss gun is sold commercially in the US for around USD1,200 for the semi-auto version, I guess with a large order and military discount, the US forces only pays around USD1,000 for the same gun.
We of course, had to pay another 1 grant extra to pay for the transportation charges!!!! As for the ridiculous price of the M4? Remember what happened to Razak Baginda and Amin Shah,
The US is waiting breathlessly for a revolution in small arms design, meaning that they will use the M4 until the Phaser or Laser gun is available, unless this is delayed indifinitely perhaps they will buy a piston rifle.
My personal preference? The Sig chambered with 7.62 Russian cartridge, a do it all assault/battle rifle!
SIG 552 is too short. the action is extremely violent and the guns beat themsleves to death within a few thousand rounds. The only users of the 552 in USSOCOM are the SEALs due to OTB isssues with the M4. The 551 is a fine gun but the 552 isn't. Funnily enough PASKAU had not long previously bought some Bushmaster Carbon 15s, a carbon fibre version of the M4 which are really light but aren't fit for prime time.
The going USG price for a Colt M4A1 as of press time is USD 1,730 inclusive of spares. This was the price quoted for a USAF buy from this year. Colt Defense jacked up their prices last year.
The SIG552 is not sold to civillians in the US in any guise. The gun sold in the US is the SIG-USA made Stg 556 which is based on the 550-series weapons but with a M16/STANAG magwell. It shoots pretty nice but has a 16" barrel and weighs like a mofo. Also fit and finish is distinctly not up to Swiss standards. The 552 is sold to LEO/Mil for about USD 1,200.
There's much more movement in the small arms realm than is generally reported.
Trying to build M4s in Malaysia will result in the same fiasco as the Steyrs because it's being done by the same set of actors, namely SMEO under NADI. Colt will require them to produce major components such as receivers and barrels rather than buying them in and assembling. The cost of the tooling and dies will make the guns utterly uncompetitive due to the need to amortize these costs. Major subs in the US amortized these costs 30 years ago. This was why the Malaysia taxpayer paid USD 3,000 per Steyr when the Austrian units were going for half or less as much.
Not that SMEO cares since the taxpayer is underwriting the whole effort.
Marhalim have you found out where this allocation for the M4s came from? You will note that it does not appear anywhere in the 9MP. You will be very surprised to learn how the project came together in the aftermath of the spectacular and protracted collapse of Steyr-Mannlincher Malaysia S/B. Great story of how appropriations can be massaged and modified and how to avoid tenders and other such silliness.
The US Army is very fond of vaporware. Every program they ahve conducted to replace the M16 has been a signal and horrible failure from Project SALVO back in the 60s, through the flawed but amusing ACR trials and the botched OICW and its bastard progeny the XM-8. This would be due to people taking PowerPoint presentations as gospel........
I have not found out from where the money came from but its certainly not from 9mp since the original deal was signed i n 2006, so it must have been cooked up well before that!
The funding allocation was not for a new rifle or any M4s. It was approved for something else and then 'appropriated' to fund the M4 buy. But you ask...why no open competition and tender? Have to be quick to ask the decision maker about this, he'll be retired in a few weeks.......
I'll give you a few helpful hints. The money was allocated in 2004....cast your mind to the announcements made at DSA that year....:). How was it possible to fly this under the radar of Treasury....? Well, for that you must ask the Minister of Finance Lah.
Perhaps you were right MeesterT but nothing for sure..We can assume a lot of thing but the answers are known to this 'people'..Maybe it will take some gut for someone to dare ask 'him' especially those mainstream masses to unveiled the truth about this..Otherwise, the public will not know how our money are spent by those 'people'..
There were many decisions that aroused reasonable doubt..We seem to overspent our money for things that below expectations..I wish they will be wiser to spend the fund..we have limited fund and yet we buy thing that are not the best..Why not,since we have limitation, we ensure that we get the best quality with that fund..
Personally i prefer the punch of 7.62 with the accuracy of 5.56. It will be better if only we could manage to come up with this combination. I watched discovery channel recently where a company which manage to come up with this combination by introducing 6.8 which was said to have the punch of 7.62 and the accuracy of 5.56 and it gains my interests. Yet we still do not know the performance of this new ammo since no known services in the world have used this caliber.