SHAH ALAM: Another KJA Programme. In my earlier post on the MIFV/Adnan Upgrade I mentioned that the Army has another KJA – armoured vehicles – programme being planned for the near future. Its two actually as both are wheeled armoured vehicles – the High Mobility Protected Vehicles (HMAPV) and the 6X6.
PARS 6X6 APC
The current HMPV in service with the Army are the Deftech LipanBara while the 6X6 is of course the Condor. There is another HMPV in service with the Malaysian contingent in Lebanon – the IAG Guardian – but thats a different story all together .
A Lipan Bara likely from the Armour School in Port Dickson at the Merdeka 2019 rehersal day.
At this juncture,the Army has yet to finalise its plan and even though currently it’s a two KJA programme it could become one, once the dust is settled. However I was told that this had not been decided yet which may lead to a final decision to be made during RMK12 and implemented in RMK13.
Condors of 4 Armor during an exercise in February, 2019. Facebook
The long gestation period of the 6X6 (I first wrote about the indecision back in 2006) overlaps the decision to buy the 8X8. There is a school of thought that the Army should just buy the Gempita 6X6 to replace the Condors still in service with the three Armor regiments – 2 KAD, 3 KAD and 4 KAD. Both the 2 KAD and 3 KAD have already been equipped with the Gempita though likely with Support companies only. The 4 KAD based in Sarawak has yet to be equipped with any Gempita though.
Gempita from 2 Armor at a recent parade. BTDM
However with many companies pushing their 6X6 to the Army and the new policy of open competition in Malaysian procurement it is likely that the Gempita and it smaller siblings 6X6 needs to fend off its other contenders.
Hanwa Tigon 6X6 APC
It is the same thing with the LipanBara. An open competition is the most likely outcome when and once the decision to buy new HMPV is approved and funded. Unless they decide to merge the 6X6 and HMPV programmes of course. Or simply buy the Gempita
— Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (95)
Is the HMPV is equivalent to American MRAP?
Reply
Not really
AAV-7 for a completely new dimensions in army's capability?
Reply
Not unless the Amphibious Brigade becomes a reality
Do we really need 6x6s to replace the condors in the cavalry regiment?
For the Cavalry Regiments, I would prefer a mix of Gempita and J-LTVs. J-LTVs has high performance suspension for it to travel at high speed off-road. Why J-LTVs? It has high performance, high protection levels and low cost (less than USD350k each)
For HMPV, I would like this to be the replacement for condors in APC role. The Lipanbara problem is that it cost about USD1.6 million each. I would like to see the HMPV to cost around USD0.5-0.8 million each. It must ideally carry 8 soldiers in addition to the vehicle crew.
For cavalry regiments, it would ideally consist of
24 gempita IFV30
12 gempita LCT30
4 gempita Command
2 gempita ARV
2 gempita Maintenance
34 J-LTV (12 HWC, 6 VINTAQS, 12 GP, 4 ambulance)
Making up 3 squadrons of Gempita, 1 Squadron of J-LTV fire support, 1 Squadron of J-LTV recce plus a Cavalry HQ.
There will still be 4 cavalry regiments with gempita-JLTV combo, but 2nd KAD to be transferred to 5th Divison Sabah, its place in Negeri Sembilan ideally should be replaced by a 2nd MBT regiment.
The HMPVs ideally should be enough for 5 battalions + 1 UN battalion. The 5 battalions is to be the 3 battalions of 7th Brigade, and 1 battalion each in 1st Division and 5th Division.
IMO in RMK12 we should buy a 2nd batch of gempita, not for cavalry regiments, but mainly for 2 more mechanized infantry battalions so that we can have an all wheeled 4th Brigade Mechanized. What is the advantage of an all wheeled formation? Self-deploy capability and high maneuverability of the whole brigade without the need of low-loaders.
@ dundun
I would love to have a squadron of AAV-7 under an enlarged KAD Para Regiment. But that must be followed with the MRSS to be something like a LPD, not glorified tankers or container ships.
I would like the KAD Para to have 2 squadrons plus ready stocks, 1 with AAV-7 (for amphibious operations), 1 more with ZBD-03s (for airborne operations).
Each AAV-7 could carry 3 infantry sections, so 4 AAV-7 could carry 1 company of PARAs ashore from the MRSS.
its more likely to be implement on RMK13....cant gempita filled the requirement??or go for Guardian ASV....
would love to see what the new govt will be doing in new procurement..hope they true to their word on getting the army what they want rather than what the govt want...
For HMPV, we could prolly look at the likes of Otokar Cobra or VBL or Komatsu LAV(considering Abe's administration could make leeways in exporting such vehicle to Malaysia). These vehicles are dimensionally smaller than Lipanbara and could be a direct replacement to the long-serving ferret scout car
Reply
AFAIK the Ferret has been retired from service apart from a couple for ceremonial duties. It is likely these Ferrets are with 2 Armor. I haven't seen them recently however.
When you dont have a visible plan. Bean counters, politicians and the rakyat will ask why you need more armoured vehicles when you have bought the gempita 8x8?
Why it is very important to clearly articulate your future plans, so that the rakyat, which actually pays for all that can understand the need for those items.
I understand the need for HMPV. But the 6x6 i dont see the justification of the need for such vehicle instead of other cheaper alternatives.
@ dundun
The HMPV IMO is basically a requirement for an APC, the 6x6 requirement is i think to be a recce vehicle for the cavalry regiment. But IMO you dont need a 6x6 to do recce actually.
On the cavalry regiment mounts.
It is originally equipped with a mix of SIBMAS and Condors. SIBMAS as its main armoured vehicle with condor as its supporting element.
Arguably we already have the Gempita 8x8 as a replacement of the SIBMAS, IMO all the IFV30 and LCT30 variants should be allocated to cavalry units. The condor role in cavalry units IMO can be assumed by JLTVs. It is comparatively small, has excellent off road ability even at high speed, MRAP-level of armoured protection and very high reliability levels. Transfer the VINGTAQS mast from gempita to the JLTV and you will have an agile recce vehicle for the army.
http://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBBedj5.img?h=630&w=1200&m=6&q=60&o=t&l=f&f=jpg&x=1048&y=607
"I would love to have a squadron of AAV-7 under an enlarged KAD Para Regiment. But that must be followed with the MRSS to be something like a LPD, not glorified tankers or container ships."
I'm wondering what the point would be and would be very surprised if we have such a requirement at all.
AAVs don't have much purpose beyond an amphibious assault on a shore that is defended by a state adversary, which is an exercise that requires training, equipping and allocating more supporting units than we can ever hope to afford. Simply buying the AAVs alone would make them something of a white elephant.
If we simply need some capability to land on an undefended shore in the absence of port infrastructure, then we don't need the AAVs and supporting units.
@ AM
AAV-7 is not just useful against a state adversary. It can be also useful against non-state actors too.
Can you name me a vehicle that can transport 21 troops direct from a ship miles offshore with its own power over high waves to the beach. Then travel hundreds of kilometers inland to the objective while protecting its occupants from small arms fire?
http://www.armytimes.com/resizer/-Y0r4U6o7SunrDgwGGDIizwBVSc=/1200x0/filters:quality(100)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-mco.s3.amazonaws.com/public/V5U6XNNSV5HYLPQMRHWKVNZ35Q.jpg
All of our current IFVs cannot operate amphibiously in open seas, just rivers and lakes.
I believe there is a use for AAV-7s to deploy our PARA units amphibiously. That is when we have our MRSS. A battalion of PARA can be landed ashore from a MRSS by a combination of AAV-7s, LCVTs and helicopters.
Of course this is a niche capability to fully leverage the availability of MRSS vessel. At most we will need just a few dozen AAV-7 to be deployed on those MRSS.