SHAH ALAM: All the way LCA. Plan C. It appears that the LCA has become the biggest priority for the RMAF as it seek to recapitalise its fast jet fleet in an austere environment. So much so that any deal for used aircraft will probably be left behind in the wake.
With the brand new LCA coming out of nowhere to overcome everything else it is easy to become target fixated. Back in the late 90s, the air force was looking to replace its elderly MB-339As for its LIFT program. Money was also tight forcing the air force to stretch out the service lives of the fleet as it wait for funding for the replacement.
A Hawk 208 firing FZ rockets at LKT 2018
In 2001, it appears that RMAF may have gotten the chance to replace the A-Machis as New Zealand decided to retire its fleet of 339Cs it had acquired just 10 year earlier.
RNZAF MB-339C
New Zealand offered a number of this aircraft to Malaysia – likely for free though we probably need to pay for activating this aircraft again. Although an attractive option to replace the As, RMAF had also at that time was checking out new built C-Machis leaving the New Zealand aircraft as orphans
One of the MB-339CM getting ready for a test flight in 2008 prior to delivery to RMAF.
In 2006, Malaysia opted to buy eight newly built MB-339CMs though the money was so tight that the engines of the As were refurbished and put on the new airframes. Currently only seven CMs are in service with one crashing back in May, 2016.
RMAF MB-339CM M34-20 in a picture taken at the Cope Taufan in 2014 at Butterworth.
So what is this got to do with the current situation you may ask?. As you are aware RMAF wants the new LCAs to replace the CMs, Hawks and the Mig-29 as well. At the same time it is looking to purchase a number of Kuwaiti Hornets as an interim measure for the stalled MRCA program.
Two Kuwait AF F/A-18C seen here with a couple of F-16s. Internet.
With the LCA likely to be new-built airframes, we are back in the similar situation two decades ago when RMAF was deciding whether to buy new Machis or get them used from New Zealand. Back then we opted for newly built aircraft. It is likely this time around the same thing will happen, with the new built aircraft hogging the attention and funding, leaving the used option as an orphan.
RMAF F/A-18D Hornet M45-02. Nov 19, 2015
I have already been told that RMAF must up its game if it really wanted the Kuwaiti Hornets. From history, its not looking rosy…
— Malaysian Defence
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View Comments (49)
Some advice for RMAF
For now
Concentrate to secure those Hornets 1st. That chance will not be around for long.
New build LCA will be around for many2 years to come. You can start buying those in RMK12 2021-2025.
Reread the plan here
https://www.malaysiandefence.com/rmaf-2020-part-2/
Off topic, on the nuri upgrade NUP4 program. Has the RMAF been notified that the main avionics supplier for that program has been taken over by an israeli conpany?
https://www.uasc.com/home/library/news/2018/04/11/tucson-based-universal-avionics-systems-corporation
So this makes my option of getting used EC225 LP helicopters much better than going on with the NUP4 based upgrade
Some difference in situation between the kiwi MB-339CB and the kuwaiti legacy hornets
- Those kiwi mb-339cb potential buyer was only 1, malaysia. It was after malaysia said no and bought those new mb-339cm that it was sold to US company DRAKEN.
- Those kuwaiti hornets are being looked at by US Marines and Canada too. If Malaysia does not up its game for those hornets, most probably it will go to other people.
More on RMAFs CAP55. After asking around trying to get more info on this, it seems that it is of now just a slogan, no concrete plans whatsoever. Great.
Sudah sampai masanya RMAF berkembang sealiran dengan peredaran zaman dengan memiliki aset aset yang canggih dan terbaru .
Masih ingat sewaktu dahulu RMAF dan Malaysia ammnya pernah menjadi pasukan yang di segani di rantau Asean dengan kemunculan jet jet pejuang baru yang pada masa itu tidak dapat di tandingi oleh negara tetangga.
Harapan semoga bermula tahun 2018 - 2020 kita dapat melihat perubahan RMAF dengan penambahan jet pejuang baru spt Su 57 Pak Fa, Su 30 Mkm, FA 18 Sh blok 3 dan pesawat pengintai AEW&C ..bagi LCA terdapat bayak pilihan, untuk mengisi kekosongan ruang udara negara Malaysia yang tercinta ini dari di terobosi musuh yang datang tak di undang .
As I mentioned before, these kinda chances only come once in a lifetime, especially when they're well maintained, available for free/very low price, and still have lotsa life in them. Just like the RNZAF Machis, we might rue the missed chance to get them.
While LIFT is important, we still have Hawks to tide us for a while to get new planes. We don't have that luxury with those Kuwaiti F18s as I'm sure others are eyeing it as well. The performance gap these planes will give us, outweighs whatever benefits the new LCAs can do. Its like either buying a brand new Toyota, or a well maintained classic Mustang that's going for dirt cheap. These kinda deals shouldn't be passed up like previously.
Mindef & MOF, please reconsider.
@...
About the Nuri upgrade contractor issue. The Israeli question should no longer be a problem in New Malaysia. That's all I'm gonna say.
I agree that the Kuwaiti Hornets both 2 seaters and single seats are the best immediate options available right now for RMAF. It's a no brainer. MinDef must come up with a definite decision on whether we ARE taking them or not.
I'd love to see newer assets in RMAF but we are looking down our pants so to speak for loose change. We need LCAs but yes, we can always buy new-built aircraft. And new probably means we won't see them in service until several years after they're paid for!
* Just get on with the Kuwaiti F18 deal. Don't just dump the idea just because it didn't come from some Pakatan backbencher!
joe - ''While LIFT is important, we still have Hawks to tide us for a while to get new planes.''
The Hawks are not LIFT assets. In fact, neither are the MBB-339CMs. It's a dedicated trainer intended for pilots who require conversion into a fast jet but not a LIFT in the truest sense of the word. In short we have a need for a dedicated LIFT; even if we don't buy new fighters in the short term.
On the MBB-339As we looked at upgrading them [a team from Aermacchi inspected them] but the cost was not worth it so we looked elsewhere. The decision on the ex-RNZAF MBB-339s was announced during the Agong's visit to NZ and the later decision to drop the deal was a political one.
Whilst various options can be had with the Nuris the key fact is that the RMAF has no intention of fully retiring them and has been pressing for an upgrade since the 1990's. Even if, years ago, a 2nd batch of Cougars were funded to enable a 2nd squadron; the intention was always to maintain a small batch of Nuris in service for general utility work; some going to the army. The original plan was for the Cougars [24 were requested] to do SAR and special forces insertion.
joe - ''The Israeli question should no longer be a problem in New Malaysia.''
No comment about the political aspect but Israeli owned doesn't necessarily mean that there are Israeli made parts. Also it's not as if we don't have a history of sourcing [non military] stuff that originally was made in Israel, were made based on Israeli tech or were made by companies with part Israeli ownership or connections. Same with South African during the Apartheid era. There was no official diplomatic recognition and trade was banned but certain stuff [after being rerouted and retagged] made its way here.
Taib - ''MinDef must come up with a definite decision on whether we ARE taking them or not.''
Mindef [based on the RMAF's recommendation] decides and forwards the proposal further up but the politicians will make the final decision [after talks with the EPU, Ministry of Finance and Foreign Ministry]. The thing is, at the moment they have other pressing issues to focus on namely the economy.
If we want to look at the political aspect; under Mahathir most of what we bought was gold plated and based on political considerations like how the buy would benefit the country [not only in a military aspect] but also on the level of ties with the country the equipment was sourced from. Procurement was late but it eventually happened. Like many other things, we just have to wait and see whether the overall policy regarding procurement of defence related stuff will change.
"I have already been told that RMAF must up its game if it really wanted the Kuwaiti Hornets. From history, its not looking rosy…"
Care to elaborate on what RMAF "upping its game" likely meant, apart from lobbying the new government? Increase price offers? Or diplomatic efforts with the Arabs?
Azlan, political considerations yes, but surely the Kuwaitis can keep waiting for the nod from us.
The new LCA or Kuwaiti Hornets issue must be put to rest quickly.
I agree the Hawks and MB339s are not excellent LIFT aircraft choices. Can we 'make do with the MiGs as LIFT aircraft. See how many airframes are still able to withstand LIFT training sessions ? Maybe work them together with the MB339s. Plus just minimal upgrades for both whilst the head honchos in MinDef deliberate for a further decade before coming to a LIFT and/ or LCA decision :-)
mr ...
"More on RMAFs CAP55. After asking around trying to get more info on this, it seems that it is of now just a slogan, no concrete plans whatsoever. Great."
its to be expected since they get new govt and cannot just ask and expect it to be deliver just like the MRCA.
Nik Roslan bin Hj Omar
"tahun 2018 – 2020 kita dapat melihat perubahan RMAF dengan penambahan jet pejuang baru spt Su 57 Pak Fa, Su 30 Mkm, FA 18 Sh blok 3 dan pesawat pengintai AEW&C"
please dont pray fo this. our experience with Russian made so far was different from western made. best way will be go western for more commonality.
to me this is good news.at least we can see the objective now.the ministry can plan how to get it realize. the money is there with the previous govt already save the money(plan at least based on the economy) and new the new govt just need to make sure its done. lastly, its time to go begging for Kuwait hornet. go go go