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• I would prefer to use the US army term "reset" for something like this.

  Things to be done (IMO):
  - engine overhaul to new tolerances
  - gearbox overhaul to new tolerances
  - new wirings
  - new suspension absorbers
  - rubber track pad replacements

  Nice things to have for reset
  - same BMS system with Gempita
  - gunshot detection system like the metravib pillar V
  - Multi-spectral camouflage netting like on the Pendekar

  This is the FNSS suggestion for upgrades
  https://www.fnss.com.tr/content/images/fnss-zma15-modernizasyon-content-en.jpg

  BTW 11 armor is also allocated with its own Adnans.

• Can’t the Adnans and MIFV share the same modernization programs? Same engine, same transmission, same wiring, same armor. After all, they are from the same base vehicle.

  IMHO using 25mm guns mounted on RWS for Adnans and MIFVs instead of Sharpshooter turrets would further reduce the weight of the vehicles, allowing more armour to be mounted.

• The one thing that should be looked at is if extra protection against shoulder fired weapons [like chicken wire or other stuff like applique] can be added without added strain on the engine/gear box. Another matter is a wee bit trickier; that of the Sharpshooter. Can it be replaced with a smaller, more compact and lighter turret? One that is less likely to result in the vehicle toppling over when on uneven ground. The Sharpshooter was selected by Deftech not the army; as was several other components that went on the Adnan. It would also be useful to have an OWS for some variants. The driver's thermal is Turkish. Wonder how it's performing after years in service.

  October's AFM had an interesting article on a USMC legacy Hornet squadron. Lots of interesting details including how maintaining the older air frames are getting harder, as well as sourcing spares. Servicibility is running at 50 percent. Interesting to speculate how high servicibility was a decade or so ago when the air frames were younger and spares were easier to get; as well as servicibility rates the air arms of Australia, Spain and Finland are getting with their 'Cs' and 'Ds'.

• @ azlan

  You just read the Oct AFM recently?? I just read the Dec mag last week :)

  That article is about a reserve USMC squadron flying F/A-18A++ hand me downs. All of its aircraft have more than 6,000 hours each, and one aircraft has
  already passed 9,000 flying hours. Because they are a reserve squadron they have a lower priority than the operational squadrons within the USMC, so serviceability is understandably low. From the article the F/A-18A++ is already replaced by F/A-18C+ by now.

  "The great advantage of the C+ models is
  they are newer airframes and so besides
  not having to X-ray them, the amount of
  maintenance hours needed to keep them
  in the air is expected to reduce. Another
  benefit is that these aircraft come directly
  from the overhaul depot and are very
  well maintained. Also, plenty of parts are
  interchangeable between the A++ and the
  C+ models – it’s expected that about 75%
  of the A++ parts can be cannibalised for use
  on the C+. Because the differences between
  these two models are minor, maintainers
  and pilots don’t need extensive conversion
  training to become operational on the C+."

  From the article, cannibalising is an important feature to keep serviceability high (BT no mention of 50% operational readiness anywhere in the article). Why I advocate TUDM to buy RAAF F/A-18s for spare parts.

• @ azlan

  Chicken wire is problematic in our vegetation. Applique like RUAG SIDEPRO would be nice to have.

  https://www.ruag.com/sites/default/files/media_document/2017-02/RZ_FS_SidePRO-RPG_EN_low_Original_3787.pdf

  Sharpshooter? Better leave it as is.

  Major mods like additional applique and new RWS will add substantial costs.

• "One one thing that should be looked at is if extra protection against shoulder fired weapons [like chicken wire or other stuff like applique] can be added without added strain on the engine/gear box."

  Since the Adnan is a growth of the M113, it might already be near the limits of the platform.

  "Another matter is a wee bit trickier; that of the Sharpshooter. Can it be replaced with a smaller, more compact and lighter turret? It would also be useful to have an OWS for some variants."

  I'm not aware of any manned turret smaller than the Sharpshooter with comparable armament, a smaller replacement might have to be unmanned whether we like it or not. Any replacement will be limited only by overall size of the turret but also of the turret ring.

  How exactly do we employ the Adnan and will an upgrade package benefit us given the role we assign it and its limitations (armour levels, size, mobility)?

• ........ - ''Chicken wire is problematic in our vegetation.''

  Yes but at times Adnans won't be operating in secondary jungle or palm oil states but in areas such as highways or urban areas.

  ..... - ''Major mods like additional applique and new RWS will add substantial costs.''

  But if applique prevents a vehicle from being destroyed or suffering serious damage, which leads to the loss of crew, then the costs will be justified. As it stands, there is a need to improve protection levels of the Adnan. No point having IR reducing paint, a BMS, thermal, new pads, new engine, new electricals and a auto cannon if the vehicle has zero protection [whether in the form of chicken wire or applique] against certain types of threats. As such increasing protections level should be seen as a 'must'' rather than a ''major mod''.

  An RWS [although akin to looking through straw] prevents unnecessarily injuries or death to crew members who have to stick the heads out to manually operated something; a risky undertaking especially in restricted terrain where engagement ranges will be shorter. One can argue that crew members have to stick their heads out of turrets to have the needed SA, yes no doubt but at times they won't or can't.

  .... - ''From the article, cannibalising is an important feature to keep serviceability high (BT no mention of 50% operational readiness anywhere in the article)''

  I wasn't under the influence of any substances when I read the article :]

  That the 'C' and 'A' and 'D' share commonality is no surprise. To me, after reading the article, the question to ask is if a U.S. unit has issues with spares and issues related to age [which will be present irrespective of the aircraft having flown more hours compared to foreign ones] how will others [who have less resources] fare?

  ..... - ''Because they are a reserve squadron they have a lower priority than the operational squadrons within the USMC, so serviceability is understandably low.''

  Not necessarily so. In this instance maybe but in general, not necessarily so.

  .... - ''Why I advocate TUDM to buy RAAF F/A-18s for spare parts.

  I'd advocate buying from Elmer Fudd or Dick Dastardly if we have to as long as we have the needed quantity and types of spares when we need them.

  AM - '' it might already be near the limits of the platform.''

  Certain measures can be taken to increase protection levels.

  The Bionix is also based on the M-113 but Bionix 2 has significant improvements in protection levels.

  AM - '' will an upgrade package benefit us given the role we assign it and its limitations (armour levels, size, mobility)?''

  The million ringgit question. For starters it would be useful if the army has a rough estimate as to how long will the Adnans have to be operated. This of course won't happen. Even if funds were available how much we're willing to spend on an upgrade has to be determined by various factors : it is worth spending 'x' amount or just the absolute minimum[like with the Laksamanas] and will an upgrade provide a good return in investment in terms of capabilities and utility? Based on technical factors and costs upgrades look simple on paper but in reality they're not [aw you're aware], being dependent on various factors.

  AM - ''Any replacement will be limited only by overall size of the turret but also of the turret ring.''

  True and we agree that 'X' number [at minimum] have to have ether a 25 or 30mm auto cannon in the event they come up against similar types of vehicles. Based on that however one can point out that certain IFVs have been uparmoured to the extent that a 30mm is needed. In fact almost 10 years ago there were plans to get a stretched Adnan with a 30mm.

  The Adnan is a decent vehicle. At the end of the day however the programme was a refection of procurement policy as a whole. We bought it because Turkey is a Muslim country and a lot of what went on the Adnan was selected by Deftech, not the army.

• The Adnans & MIFV, also the Condors & Scorpions, should be SLEPed as the many units that we bought, can easily justify their upgrading for continued usage. Most of them have sound chassis and a upgrade limited to the powertrain & drivetrain is at least doable for Phase 1. When money is available, Phase 2 can focus on improving surviveability and updating the weapons system.

  I personally would prefer the US Army/Israeli styled slat armour (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slat_armor) as this had been proven against RPGs and HEAT rounds.

• @...
  "Why I advocate TUDM to buy RAAF F/A-18s for spare parts."

  RAAF jual kepada Canada dah. Remainder likely to be used by RAAF until falling apart pending F-35 deliveries.

  Re: Adnan
  We also have to ask ourselves what threat we are protecting the Adnans/KIFVs against.

  Chicken-wire is a protection against infantry, ie more towards counter-insurgency work.

  Lethality upgrades, multispectral camo and armour upgrades against high-caliber autocannon are protection against IFVs ie "peer threats".

  Question is, which is a priority for the Adnans...

• However advanced we modify the Adnan, its protection capability pales when compared to the Gempita. IMO reset it and use it as is, and replace it post 2030 with a new tracked IFV, probably for 2 battalions to constitute the proposed armoured brigade. BTW i don't know why we should have protection against RPG when most of our neighbours does not even use the RPG?

  The current mechanized brigade IMO should be equipped fully with gempita's if possible.

  As for the PT-91M, is it a big ask to install something like the Norinco GL5 Active Protection System?

  https://www.armyrecognition.com/airshow_china_2018_zhuhai_news_show_daily_coverage/airshow_china_2018_gl5_hard-kill_aps_active_protection_system_for_tanks.html